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DATA COLLECTION: L218 OTA Guide Data Problems

Discussion in 'Other HD Receiver Support Forum (811, 921, 942)' started by Allen Noland, Jul 28, 2005.

  1. langlin

    langlin Godfather

    Apr 8, 2005
    Mark or Allen, as I read though these postings, it seems there are a disproportionate number of PBS stations missing OTA guide data, is this a clue or a coincidence?
  2. Michael P

    Michael P Hall Of Fame

    Oct 27, 2004
    It's probably because most PBS stations carry a different program schedule on their DT channels than they curently carry on their analog channel.

    For example, in my DMA (Cleveland) we have 2 PBS channels WVIZ and WEAO.
    WVIZ does not carry a digital version of their analog chanel. 25-1 is PBS-HD, 25-2 is The Ohio Channel, 25-9 is "CRRS" which is an audio only channel (also availabe on the SAP channel of the analog channel) for the blind.

    WEAO does carry a digital version of their analog channel, but it's on 50-2, 50-1 is PBS-HD - just like WVIZ. Additionally WEAO does not map their analog channel number on their DT feed. This channel is carried in 2 different DMA's Cleveland & Youngstown. The Youngstown "feed", WNEO, is analog 45 digital 46. That channel DOES map to 45-1 & 45-2, while the Akron/Cleveland feed keeps their digital RF channel 50-1, 50-2 insted of 49 (the analog channel).

    Such inconsistencies is probably the reason most PBS stations are not included in the 921's guide data. There are exceptions, it's reported that at least one California PBS affilliate's guide data is correct for both main and subchannels! How that can be since the subchannels are not carried in the LIL's is beyond me (unless one of the subchannels is PBS-YOU in which case they could map from the "PI" channels). But that is just one possible channel out of 4 subchannels.
  3. langlin

    langlin Godfather

    Apr 8, 2005
    Actually, while what you say is true I'm sure in your area and could cause problems in some areas, my PBS does carry the same programming schedule on 23-1 as their Analog and the Guide is correct in the Dish LIL, it just doesn't remap. Also prior to L212, it did remap and was correct.
  4. Grandude

    Grandude RichardParker II

    Oct 21, 2004
    BUT, when we had L216 which was giving free guides to all, our local PBS had all the subchannels listed correctly. Prior to 216 the guide did not.

    It looks like they can do it but just don't know how or what they are doing at times. :(
  5. DanB33

    DanB33 Cool Member

    Nov 16, 2003
    I get OTA Guide data for all Stations in Grand Rapids, MI except WZZM-DT, channel 39 mapped 013-01 and WZPX-DT channel 44 mapped 043-01. I do not get Guide info for any Sub Channels. I do Subscribe to the GR Locals on DISH.
    WZPX is the PAX Station and not in the GR Locals Package.
    WZZM is one of two ABC Affiliates in Grand Rapids and the POP for DISH in GR. I get Local for the current show and No Information for others.
    Contact Info for WZZM:
    Chuck Mikowski
    PO Box Z
    Grand Rapids, MI 49501

    I hope this helps.
  6. Michael P

    Michael P Hall Of Fame

    Oct 27, 2004
    215 was the s/w version that gave some "free" guides, 216 took away the guides and the ability to view the -01 channels for the stations that had guide data in 215.

    As for why the SFO PBS has subchannel guide data, it's a mystery. An educated guess is that the station is doing something in their PSIP data stream that otheres are not doing, since the subchannels are not carried on E* LIL's (or at least not carried as an LIL, some may be "PI" channels).

    For those who get guide data on the SFO PBS: are you subscribing to E* LIL's in order to get the guide data?
  7. Ron Barry

    Ron Barry 622 Tips & Trick Keeper

    Dec 10, 2002
    I did a quick check with my PBS stations in Los Angeles. On my 921, I get guide info for channel 28-2 and not on 28-1. As a comparision, my 811 shows guide info for both sub-channels.

    If I recall the 811 and the 921 uses different EPG guide streams but I am not 100% certain.
  8. keitheva

    keitheva Legend

    Aug 23, 2002
    We had a long discussion about this at the time SFO PBS KQED-DT and KCSM-DT first showed up with all 5 and 2 subchannels correctly described in the EPG with the L216 release. Since the EPG data went out the full 8 days, but PSIP was never more than about 12 hours (verified by using other OTA receivers which display PSIP guide data), the conclusion was that Dish gets the guide data from some other source and plugs it into their datastream, where it is read by the receiver.

    This is of course all moot, since with L218 we now get no guide data whatsoever for KQED-DT, and only the -01 subchannel for KCSM.

    I subscribe to locals.

    So much for progress.
  9. ebaltz

    ebaltz Hall Of Fame

    Nov 23, 2004
    Yeah it is a big step backwards.
  10. motrac

    motrac AllStar

    Jan 5, 2003
    You are correct. Dish doesn't care if you get complete guide info for all channels with an 811, you can get that same info from your local paper's t.v. guide but with the 921 they are deliberately playing games with the guides so you don't have the ability to just click on a shows title and create a timer. Yes you can enter the timer manually but they know we soon will want the
    easy way of clicking the guide and because the only way we'll get that ability is to pay them more money for our local package
    From their point of view it's a good business move, get every dime you can out of the paying public which stinks for us.
  11. Ron Barry

    Ron Barry 622 Tips & Trick Keeper

    Dec 10, 2002
    I was referring to EPG streams not their business practices. I believe the 811 does not use the 9 day guide stream. THe 921 does. This could account for differences in what id displayed when you have subbed for locals.
  12. Grandude

    Grandude RichardParker II

    Oct 21, 2004
    I stand corrected on the version number. They came through so fast that I forgot what number was what.

    With 215, we in the SF Bay area got a wonderful listing in the guide for all the KQED (PBS) subchannels out to two weeks. My point is that Dish does have the information to do this and apparently doesn't have the ability to do it without giving it to all who don't subscribe to the locals. :confused:

    I subscribe to local since I have more than one TV and Dish receiver besides my 921 and 811.
  13. Johndris

    Johndris New Member

    Jun 10, 2004
    KQED is my strongest signal, with direct line of sight to the antennae on Twin Peaks.

    However, like several on this thread, I have lost the information for the excellent off-air digital KQED channels out of San Francisco. I had them in the last software upgrade but now they are gone with whatever number we are currently on. I get all the other local channel information since I subscribe to them on Dish (but never watch them on Dish now since the Dish quality is way below off-air for my locals).

    John Driscoll
    San Francisco
  14. fkasten

    fkasten New Member

    Apr 23, 2002
    I live in Louisville, KY and my situation is exactly the same as lapplegate's quoted below.

    Frank Kasten

  15. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

    Jun 14, 2003
    Salem, OR
    I'm on the "temporary" subscription to the Portland Oregon locals and with the Dish HD-34 being less than stellar with SD, the Dish locals aren't going to be in my future. I get signals between 95 and 125 on all of the OTA channels.

    I see guide data for the analog and first digital (it appears to be the same information) for all of the Dish carried stations except the PBS station. KATU (ABC), KPTV (Fox) and KPDX (UPN) have only a single digital channel.

    What is missing:

    KOIN-DT2 (CBS, usually SD digital version of analog)
    KGW-WX (NBC, localized version of the NBC weather channel)
    KOPB-DT1 (PBS, usually different content from analog)
    KPXG-DT1,2,3,4 (PAX, locals generally not carried by Dish)

    This has been consistent throughout the various software reversions that I've been subjected to.

    TitanTV says that I should be seeing a KOIN-DT3 and an KOPB-DT2, but I don't think that they are actually broadcast. They also say that KPXG isn't digital yet, but they offer four channels so go figure.
  16. WhatMud

    WhatMud Cool Member

    Mar 15, 2005
    I subscribe to Dish Locals in Knoxville, TN.

    Every few days I loose the signal for WBIR (NBC) 10 mapped to 10-01 (Dish 9312). Only a power cord reboot fixes it. I have tried, deleting, rescanning, and front panel power-off to no avail. This is the channel I watch the news on each evening, it is very annoying to come home to find out I have to reboot the system to watch. It is working fine when I leave for work, so just turning off the TV and DVR seem to make it happen.

    I can scan and pickup about 15 analog channels, but they don’t show in the guide at all. If I try to change to one of them manually, DVR tunes to Dish 101. There are other local channels available on local cable that aren’t in the Dish package. Seems we should be able to get them for the price we are paying.

    No guide data for the following:
    WATE (ABC) 6 mapped to 06-01 (Dish 9310)
    WKOP (PBS HD) 15 mapped to 015-01 (No Dish equivalent, but since I subscribe to the HD package shouldn’t it be available?)
    WTNZ (FOX) 43 mapped to 043-01 (Dish 9313)

    WKOP (PBS) 15 mapped to 015-02 (Dish 9316) seems to lose signal quite often, pretty much makes it impossible to watch.

    Like johndris I never watch locals on Dish, since the quality is way below off-air quality for locals we are paying so much for.

    TV: Sony KDF-55WF655 connected component
    Model ID: DishDVR 921
    Card Revision: DNASP103 Rev302
    Boot Version: 150B
    Flash Version: F054
    SW Version: L218HEED-N
  17. lenny

    lenny Cool Member/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    Jun 20, 2004
    This is basically a cut/paste from my post to the L216 OTA guide issue. I just changed my receiver software to L218. I'm having the exact same problem ever since L212.....Lenny

    I'm in the Buffalo, New York market and I subscribe to the dish locals. Here's my situation which has been the same since I think L212. At L212 I received all OTA guide data for all stations. I think L213 took away the OTA guide data for the stations listed below and I haven't received them since. So the below info applies since L213.

    Also, which may be pertinent my local stations are located between 9125-9132.

    Station - Call Letters - Do I get guide data
    -------- ------------ ---------------------
    002-01 wgrz No
    004-01 wivb No
    007-01 wkbw Yes
    023-01 wnlo Yes
    029-01 wutv Yes
    049-01 wnyo No

    Don't know if this matters but locals that are on the same satellite and spotbeam doesn't matter to OTA guide data. That is, wivb and wkbw are on 110 and spotbeam 8 and per the above one gets the OTA guide data and one does not.

    My 921 info is:
    Boot Version: 140B
    Flash Version: F052
    SW Version: L218HECD-N

    Hitachi Ultravision 61" 61swx01w

  18. KKlare

    KKlare Godfather

    Sep 24, 2004
    TV sections do not cover subchannels, especially PBS. They are not searchable. They are a lot less usable and may match cable instead.

    I clicked record on a primetime movie and because the underlying guide is just blocks it cut off well short of the 3 hours. Yes I should have not just clicked OK but chosen the select end time option. Next time.
  19. seadoo

    seadoo AllStar

    May 28, 2004
    Tri Cities Tn/va

    Wkpt - Abc 19-1 Fr 27
  20. Slordak

    Slordak Hall Of Fame

    Dec 17, 2003
    As Tweeterhead mentioned in the other forum, the Chicago local programming guide has been missing several channels for a number of releases now; this is not new to L218 or L215. Channels such as ABC, NBC, and CBS are fine, but some of the "more minor" channels have issues.

    Missing guide data:
    WGN-DT, channel 9.1 (Freq. 19), which is the WB affiliate in Chicago.
    - This channel should be mapped to the guide data for channel 8494.
    WTTW-DT, channel 11.1 (Freq. 47), which is a Chicago PBS station.
    - This channel should be mapped to the guide data for channel 8496.

    A) I do subscribe to Chicago locals and I do physically live in this DMA.
    B) I do have a 61.5 Dish 300 in addition to my 110/119 Dish 500.

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