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DECA vs Ethernet

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Connected Home' started by pjschwartz, Nov 7, 2011.

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  1. Nov 20, 2011 #81 of 116
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The same thing could be said about quantum mechanics, but it would have little to do with a connected home.

    This just seems to have turned into a geek fest by the ethernet experts.
     
  2. Nov 20, 2011 #82 of 116
    lugnutathome

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    And now I see your point!

    Don "mine is atop me head" Bolton
     
  3. Nov 20, 2011 #83 of 116
    Spanky_Partain

    Spanky_Partain Active Member

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    So far the only complaint I have about DECA is that I have replaced two DECA boxes in my environment. Even with that said I have had to replace one 5 port Gb switch as well.

    At least the DECA boxes were free!

    Think I will go back to a rotary phone and then all worries will be resolved. :lol:
     
  4. Nov 20, 2011 #84 of 116
    lugnutathome

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    Nobody is scared here as far as I can see. I for one have truly appreciated your knowledge on the subject but the problem is we keep weighing "one vs the other" when unless we had a solid hard wired infrastructure in place for other reasons it's moot.

    In that context I get where the details of Ethernet should be in their own forum. Some of us in the group share many complex concepts and ideas and sometimes we get ahead of where the bulk of the group is, or where a person whom had asked a question really wanted to go. It confuses the question for many.

    I have no doubt that Ethernet's scalable and "tunable" infrastructure offers a superior technical solution however it is to a problem in this context a very few of us have. DirectTV came up with a controlled infrastructure which within it's boundaries is simple and transparent to the consumer.

    There are those very few of us that have infrastructure requirements that exceed the boundaries engineered into Direct TV's DECA and since in the end we're just talking IP packet transferring here, Ethernet is gold in those instances cause gee well that is what it was made for.

    I truly thank you for sharing your knowledge on the subject and think your idea of a sticky is an excellent one! There is much knowledge here for those of us that need it (I have been one).

    There are many here whom could care less and have grown irritated at this recurring topic when logically (to them) DECA handles nearly everyone's needs so moving this to it's own forum should stop the "well if you had DECA you wouldn't need to deal with that" (paraphrased) and we might lose some of the emotionally charged posts.

    Again I think what you have said is incredibly valuable.

    Don "Ethernet is superior in it's flexibility but in this context it's self service and that's problematic for most everyone" Bolton
     
  5. Nov 20, 2011 #85 of 116
    dpeters11

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    I wouldn't use one in this case, but hubs aren't always evil. I use one myself in my setup.
     
  6. Nov 20, 2011 #86 of 116
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Well if not "evil", they're not the best to stream MRV through, since they can swamp the network needlessly.
     
  7. Nov 20, 2011 #87 of 116
    dpeters11

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    Agreed, I wouldn't use them in the majority of situations.
     
  8. Nov 20, 2011 #88 of 116
    harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Regrettably, DECA does make some assumptions about wiring. The worst one may be that all existing outlets are home run and/or all existing splitters are easily found and replaced.
    This is a pretty thin stretch of reality. Unless you've got some manner of high zoot client-server data processing or video production activity going on with your home network, there's little chance of anything resembling flooding.

    DECA has limitations because every node uses the entire network to communicate with any other node and the other node must use the same path to communicate back. In switched Ethernet, it is entirely possible (even likely) that you have a full bandwidth path both to and from each and every node (in the classic MRV sense where one client is having a conversation with exactly one server).

    It is not all that difficult to figure out if there are any hubs in the LAN and it is cheaper than a DECA adapter to replace each one.

    MoCA/DECA is a nifty way of using coax to do something that it wasn't particularly well suited for otherwise. It has decided limitations in order to make this happen and for many, those limitations are survivable. Surely the greatest advantage is getting around having to qualify techs for LAN wiring but that's certainly no recommendation for its use otherwise.

    Ethernet is ultimately a more flexible solution for the home theater where you're going to need at least one other LAN connection at each TV anyway as streaming content becomes more popular. I've got five hardwired devices in my main TV setup and I suspect that some people have more than that. My bedroom setup has three devices (not including the computer that is also wired in).
     
  9. Nov 20, 2011 #89 of 116
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Are you ever going to get off your soapbox? You know SO little about DECA. :nono:
    Will you only get off it when your service provider starts using MoCA?

    • The MoCA 1.0 offers greater than 100 Mpbs MAC rates and 270 Mbps PHY rate.
    • MoCA 1.1 is an extension to MoCA 1.0 and offers 175 Mpbs MAC rates (PHY rate remains the same), parameterized quality of service (PQoS) for provisioning and bandwidth management of real time data requests for video applications, and 16 node network extension.
    • The MoCA 2.0 specification is available to all members and provides the following:
    • Two performance modes, Basic and Enhanced, with 400 Mbps and 800 Mpbs, MAC or actual throughput rates, respectively;
    • PHY rates for each mode are 700 Mbps and 1.4 Gbps, respectively;
    • Improved reliability with one packet error in 100 million packets, and a lower latency of 3.5ms;
    • Backward interoperability with 1.0 and 1.1 devices. MoCA 2.0 will recognize 1.0/1.1 devices on the network, and vica versa, without any impairment or degradation to performance.
     
  10. Nov 20, 2011 #90 of 116
    poppo

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    I agree 100%.

    The only disagreement I have with anyone is with those who claim that DECA somehow frees up your LAN more than Ethernet which is a false statement. And in my case where I have a nomad in the mix attached to the the same switch as my DVR's, they all talk happily between themselves and have zero impact on any other LAN traffic. At least until the point that that the nomad sends data to the iPad via the wireless router. But the same would hold true in a DECA world.
     
  11. Nov 20, 2011 #91 of 116
    DarkLogix

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    Hubs are evil scum of the earth

    the only use for a hub is for packet sniffing
     
  12. Nov 20, 2011 #92 of 116
    Rtm

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    If got a H25 could I hook it up to my unsupported setup with a deca in the wiring closet one to the switch and one cable to the satellite coming off the coax that feeds to the H25?
     
  13. Nov 21, 2011 #93 of 116
    harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    If you have issue with something I said, address it. If not, be bitter on your own time.
    My opinion of MoCA won't change based on who does or doesn't offer it (unless so few providers offer it that it doesn't reach critical mass). The importance of critical mass is whether or not any RVU or Sling clients arrive with DECA/MoCA out of the box.

    Many of those features you list are comparable with HomePlug or HomePNA. Few, if any, come anywhere close to Gigabit Ethernet. If you're considering installing one or the other, why go with the one that is limited in the way that MoCA is?

    Pity the soul that doesn't have an HR24 to analyze their DECA network.
     
  14. Nov 21, 2011 #94 of 116
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Ironic...coming from a non DirecTV sub who doesn't have a HR24, DECA, or any DirecTV stuff to analyze yet ALWAYS has a comment on it.
     
  15. Nov 21, 2011 #95 of 116
    harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Are you looking to connect your existing DECA network to the Internet or just connect an H25 to the Internet?

    Either way, you'll need to pop for a Internet Connection Kit.
     
  16. Nov 21, 2011 #96 of 116
    bjamin82

    bjamin82 Godfather

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    Personally I think DECA is way more reliable for MRV than the home network. My old house I had wires everywhere, no wireless and it dropped on occasion in the middle of a show... with DECA, its flawless.
     
  17. Nov 21, 2011 #97 of 116
    Sixto

    Sixto Well-Known Member

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    I had 7 receivers and nomad all attached to a Gig Switch, all was fine.

    With the success of DECA, and possibly the trend to DECA-only devices such as the H25 (I now have one), I decided that it was probably a good time to transition to DECA.

    I picked up a CCK from Solid Signal and made the switch to DECA (already had a SWiM-16 and cascaded SWiM-8).

    Have been DECA for about a week now, and all is great, no issue that I've noticed, and alot less wires at the Switch. :) (No longer a real need for the 24-port Gig Switch, all could easily now fit in a 16 port).

    I've especially enjoyed the comfort of the DECA diagnostic screens on the H24/H25/HR24/HR34 to show the signal levels and bandwidth between devices. Besides DECA, it's been nice to be able to judge the quality of the cabling between devices.

    While I already was somewhat networking knowledgeable, I've also enjoyed the details discussed in this thread, some good stuff.
     
  18. Nov 21, 2011 #98 of 116
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    What a nit wit.
    HomePlug, by it's nature isn't even using twisted pair, but uses the power lines within the home, to carry the RF signals. Because of this it's completely dependent on a wiring structure that was never intended to be used this way and may not work between two outputs in the SAME ROOM, if they're on two different circuit. Even when on the same circuit, they don't have much range.
    DECA doesn't suffer this, since it's used on cables intended for RF, and therefore has range that HomePlug can't even dream of.

    We could run fiber in our home too, which would exceed "your precious" Gigabit Ethernet, but this would far exceed then need for MRV, just like Gigabit Ethernet.
    Pity the fool that doesn't know what they're posting about.
    ALL DECAs have the means to know the status of the DECA. Receivers with in internally can show more information, while each external DECA reports its status through LEDs and their color.
    "Of course I know this", because I have this, while you just post crap about things you have no clue of or experience with.
    "nit wit"
     
  19. Nov 21, 2011 #99 of 116
    dpeters11

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    I am one port short on my WNDR3800. Rather than buying a switch, I plugged a hub into it for my PS3 and Roku. Only one of which is used at a time.
     
  20. dpeters11

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    The H25 requires SWM and has the DECA functionality built in.
     
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