Direct TV cant fix Losing Signal linking 2-SWiM 16

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Installation/MDU Discussion' started by Jorge J., Dec 10, 2016.

  1. Jan 5, 2017 #81 of 108
    peds48

    peds48 Genius.

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    I have to disagree with this sentiment that a system with two SWM16 it just doesn't work. Having installed many systems like these for many years and having work consistently. I really like VOS' way to combine the two switches or clouds using the NAS diplexers but DIRECTV's way of using two broadband DECAs works as well.


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  2. Jan 5, 2017 #82 of 108
    codespy

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    I've been running a parallel SWiM-16 setup with Perfect-Vision splitters with DECA's for about 5 years now, only to encounter a 771 issue starting in early December, which produced a 0 signal on every other transponder. I didn't see this thread until today. I am currently only running 8 2-tuner DVR's and a HR44-700 Genie, so 21 tuners. The 771 only was occurring on a couple of the dual tuner DVR's, and after checking all connections on my distribution board, I narrowed it down to one 8 way splitter out of the 4 installed that had the 771 issues.

    On that specific 8 way splitter (about 2 weeks ago), I removed the 3 cables for DVR's, and the one cable plugged into the DC pass thru for the ICK, figuring I'd have to replace it. Before going through the trouble of replacing, I just screwed those cables back on for the heck of it, rebooted all the receivers, and everything has been working fine since. Even had a neighborhood party Sunday for the last week of Sunday Ticket, and no 771 errors. I am getting full signal strength's as normal on all my transponders on selected satellites. I guess I must have had one bad coax connection, but everything seemed tight when I originally checked it.

    If I run into problems again, I have a couple of WB68 multi-switches in my museum of DirecTV equipment which I will try based on Peds48 advice. Thanks for all the info guys....and I did not need a truck roll to get things fixed.....for now (knock on wood).
     
  3. Jan 6, 2017 #83 of 108
    gpauljr

    gpauljr Cool Member

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    I didn't say that a system with two SWM 16s didn't work for everyone. I said that DTV couldn't get it to work for me although they spent a lot of time and expense. They used the DTV way, plus a couple of other solutions and they couldn't get it to work. This was my experience and there was no "sentiment" one way or other. I sincerely wish they could have gotten it to work, but alas, they finally gave up trying, not being able to figure out what the problem was.
     
  4. Jan 6, 2017 #84 of 108
    peds48

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    And why exactly they couldn't get it to work. What is/was not working when you had the two switches?


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  5. Jan 10, 2017 #85 of 108
    codespy

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    Update from my Thursday post....Started getting pixellating/freezing on 3 of my receivers Saturday morning (2- HR24-100's and a HR24-200). When I would go to signal meters, no matter which bird I chose, I would get about 96% on both tuners, then after 5 seconds tuner 2 to would drop to 0%, then several seconds later that would rebound to 96%, then at the same time tuner 1 would then drop to 0%, then a couple seconds later it would rebound to 96% for about 5-15 seconds (both tuners now at 96%) then the cycle would repeat itself over and over again.

    I then replaced one of my Perfect Vision splitters with a spare, and figured I got lucky replacing a bad one- everything worked fine for the duration of Saturday. Then Sunday morning we were setting up the basement bar for the Packer party later on with a bunch of neighbors, and the freezing/pixellating was back. With not wanting problems when the game started, I spent the 25 minutes and ripped out all the Perfect Vision splitters and put old reliable WB68 in. As of this writing, everything is working perfectly with no issues since the replacement. I don't know what else to use if this goes bad. I have a DirecTV supported setup for everything else, my SWiM-16's are spaced off the plywood with 1/4-20 nuts for cooling purposes, the room they are in is about 65 degrees. Hopefully this holds.......
     
  6. Jan 10, 2017 #86 of 108
    peds48

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    it should definitely hold. I have mine the same way for the last five years or so. Before I was using an E2 expander, no good. Then use splitters and had to replace a few in very short time. Since the I went the 6x8 route and it has been trouble free since then.




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  7. Jan 11, 2017 #87 of 108
    slice1900

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    Not enough information to know for sure, but that's EXACTLY what I saw when my LNB went bad. The transponders on 103 (can't remember if it was just ca, or both ca & cb) would be fine, but if a bit of sun hit the LNB the readings would start jumping all over the place. Not just 95 and 0, but all sorts of random numbers in between in my case.

    Maybe a failing SWM16 would be similar, I'm not sure. Were all the problem receivers on the same leg of SWM16? If not, I'd look at the LNB. Just because only certain receivers were affected doesn't mean the problem isn't happening everywhere - I recall reading some theories that such LNB problems are related to LO drift (which why the AIM measures that error). Different tuners have more or less tolerance for being a bit off center (and aren't exactly perfect themselves, so some may cancel out some of the error while others make it worse) A few MHz off may be all it takes for the tuner to no longer be able to lock in the transponder.
     
  8. Jan 11, 2017 #88 of 108
    codespy

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    When the problems were occurring, the volatile swings in signal strength from 0 then 95/96/97 then 0 (not really anything in between) were occurring on every bird, not just the 103(ca)/(cb). I have a newer LNB, about 2 years old I'd say, and my signal strengths for the 99, 101, 103 and 119 birds are all at 95-97 consistently, with 110 being a little lower (which doesn't impact my programming). Before the problems started a couple months ago, no issues with freezing/pixellating for years. Now that I put the WB68 in, no problems whatsoever on day #4....none. Sunny, cloudy, rainy, snowy and icy this week so far, no issues. Signal strengths are solid between 95-97, with no fluctuating on tuners doing a signal meter test. My guess is a software update in conjunction with the Perfect Vision splitters is the culprit (but what do I know?). For now I'm happy and the wife is not complaining, as she has the TV on all day long, every day, and will always tell me when things don't work properly. :rolleyes:
     
  9. Jan 13, 2017 #89 of 108
    Jodean

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    Glad to see that im not the only one that had problems with perfect vision splitters. I always get the old beat down from these guys that im the ONLY one ever having problems...... anyhow, im never doing the 6x8 option, but i HAVE had DIRECTV splitters in for over 3 years now without issues.
     
  10. Jan 14, 2017 #90 of 108
    codespy

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    I had to do something in a hurry, people were coming the same day. All I had were WB68's laying around and no DirecTV ones. It's been about a week now, with no freezing/pixelating on my setup using the 68.


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  11. Jan 14, 2017 #91 of 108
    longrider

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    I wonder if the issue is not with splitters in general but Perfect Vision splitters specifically. I have had a parallel SWM setup using Skywalker splitters for a couple years now with no issues at all
     
  12. Jan 15, 2017 #92 of 108
    veryoldschool

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    Given that splitters have worked for years now, one has to wonder about the Perfect Vision.
    It's quite possible the "power steering" [diodes] of the Skywalker keeps the SWiM-16's "DC isolated" and the Perfect Vision doesn't.
     
  13. Jan 15, 2017 #93 of 108
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    You may be right, perhaps the Perfect Vision splitters aren't all diode steered like they are supposed to be for this type of application. Looking at the picture of the splitter shown on Perfect Vision's web site (also shown in the PDF spec sheet) the circuit diagram on the splitter itself indicates diodes in the both paths. The spec sheet also mentions "DC power forward bias" as a feature.

    [​IMG]

    However, if you look at the same model splitter on Solid Signal's web site, the circuit diagram on the splitter does NOT indicate diodes:

    [​IMG]

    It isn't a matter of there being a difference between "PV23302" and "PV23-302", because if you search for images of 'perfect vision pv23-302' you can find pictures of splitters marked "PV23-302" with diodes indicated in the circuit diagram!

    Very confusing situation, and could well account for the problems people are seeing when using them. Perhaps Directv should remove them from their recommended list since it appears they are using the same part number for two different splitters! Clearly trying to use splitters that pass power on both legs without diode steering is not recommended here.
     
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  14. Jan 15, 2017 #94 of 108
    peds48

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    Hmm, got to check which one DIRECTV is providing.


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  15. Oct 10, 2017 #95 of 108
    Jodean

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    Its totaly wierd that the new approved method for combining swm 16's is by the 2 4 or 8 way directv splitters lol
    Get a life dude

    https://manuals.solidsignal.com/Multiswitch White Paper.pdf

    I still have not had any issues with this method at over 50 buildings

    Use the directv splitters, and make it so only one switch powers the dish, unless you got a line locker then it doesnt matter
     
  16. Oct 10, 2017 #96 of 108
    Jodean

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    Directv adopted my method now......you people are just ignorant

    https://manuals.solidsignal.com/Multiswitch White Paper.pdf
     
  17. Oct 11, 2017 #97 of 108
    slice1900

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    I don't see anything in that document saying you should use the green label splitters to split the LNBs and feed SWM16s. The drawings show different looking splitters and the link in the document is to Skywalker splitters. It was last updated in 2012, so if Directv is now recommending using the green label splitters for this you're gonna need to link to something more recent (and which says what you're saying it says)
     
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  18. Oct 11, 2017 #98 of 108
    HoTat2

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    Agreed ....

    In fact in the latest Solid Signal Multiswitch White Paper for 2017. Stuart shows the Skywalker 23302D diode steered splitters with all ports power-passing in the illustrations and list the -2D and -4D types in the chart on p. 24 for use in parallel multiswitches.

    (Although they are DSWM30 switches)

    There is no evidence in either White Paper that I can find where DIRECTV recommends using SWM splitters for this. View attachment Multiswitch White Paper 2017.pdf

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  19. Oct 11, 2017 #99 of 108
    slice1900

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    Hmmm, the exact same part numbers between those Skywalker splitters and Perfect Vision splitters I referenced above makes me wonder if they suffer from the same problem of having splitters with the same part number having different specs (i.e. some not being diode steering) The graphics on them don't show diode steering, and while that doesn't mean they aren't I'd be a little leery about them given the difference in markings between two otherwise identical Perfect Vision splitters with the same part number. The Skywalkers are probably just relabeled Perfect Vision, or vice versa.

    I really do wonder if the reports we've heard of people having problems with splitters in this role are because they've ended up with non-diode steered splitters to due the part number confusion, so they end up with power feeding in both directions and possibly those 22 KHz cancellation issues Sonora has referred to.

    I've had no problem whatsoever with the Holland HFS-xD diode steered splitters, they're on the approved list as well - at least the version I saw a while back. I think they'd be a better bet, if for no other reason than that you don't have to worry about getting ones that aren't diode steered like you do with the PV and potentially the Skywalkers.
     
  20. Nov 3, 2017 #100 of 108
    Jodean

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    page 7 is directv approved method links take you to purchase green label directv splitters........what couldnt you find??
     

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