Directv-16

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by slice1900, May 29, 2017.

  1. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Apparently Directv has ordered at least one more new satellite. This article from three months ago that escaped the notice of most of us references Directv-16, but someone at the other site said he thought he'd read that they ordered both 16 & 17.

    There does not seem to be any information about Directv-16 other than that it has been ordered from Airbus. We'll have to wait for an official announcement(s) that will mention the transponder payload to begin guessing where it is intended to go. While they buy satellites for non-US use, calling it Directv-16 strongly implies it is for the US market.

    Airbus space division revenue flat in 2016; orders include 5 telecom satellites - Space Intel Report
     
  2. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    They have spanning to DTV Latin, Mexico...

    I would say it will expand DTV service to Africa :D
     
  3. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Since Airbus/Astrium got the contract, and they built D15, I'm willing to bet D16 is identical, to provide maximum flexibility, and will go to 101 to replace all three satellites currently located there (D4S/D8/D9S) Who knows if Directv has any plans for their Ka band license at 101, but that's another reason to build it like D15 (though if identical to D15, D16 wouldn't be capable of powering all 32 Ku and 48 Ka transponders simultaneously)

    Assuming Directv plans to continue occupying its 11 transponders at 119, it would make sense for D8 and D9S to go there to replace D7S. They renewed D7S's original 10 year license in 2014 for only 7 years, so probably it won't last much longer than that. D8's original 10 year license was renewed in 2015 for a full term of 10 years, and they stated it has fuel life until 2034. D9S is still on its original 15 year license until 2021, but would likely have fuel life until the latter 2020s if not longer.
     
  4. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    I suspect it won't be identical to d15, I would not expect it to have a rb payload. ANd I wonder if it wont have some spot beams, depending on if they have any more markets they would like a little better coverage on.
     
  5. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    D15 had a Ku payload even though they can't use Ku from 103, so why not put a RB payload on D16, so it can go to 99 or 103 at some future date if needed? Maximum flexibility in your satellite fleet is a good thing.

    Having a few spot beams for problem areas they seem to be having trouble covering with D14 might not be a bad idea, unless they plan to keep SW1 around to handle those.
     
  6. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking they could design it with more power if there's less other payload so they could light up every transponders they have a license to at 101...

    I would actually think it would make more sense for a full spot beam payload as a back than rb. But I could see either happening. I'm just not sure they feel the need for a rb backup so much as their core stuff of ka and ku.

    How many Swiss army knife satelites do they really want? I guess that's the question. It is possible every sat they build here on out will have all three bands included.
     
  7. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    We don't know what adding the 18 reverse band transponders adds to the cost, if it is cheap (relative to the cost of building/launching the satellite) then why not? But I don't think having fewer transponders on board increases the power. The power budget is set by the solar panels - it needs to produce an excess so the batteries can be charged when it is in Earth's shadow.

    Maybe they can use more efficient TWTAs to save a bit, but they'd probably need to make it a lot bigger to be able to power 32 Ku and 48 Ka to cover their full 101 license, when it sounds like D15 can only power 18 RB and 24 Ka at once. It doesn't make sense to design it to do that unless they are really sure they plan to use Ka from 101 for CONUS. I think it is more likely if they ever use Ka from 101 that it is mostly or completely spot beams - in case 4K takes off for broadcast and they need a lot more spot beam capacity to deliver it. More likely they'd need two satellites if they want to use Ka from 101, whether CONUS or spot beam.

    If they were going to give it a full spot beam payload, it would make more sense to design it for 103, and once it is there move D15 to 101. The possibility of moving to 101 might have been the reason D15 had a Ku package.

    It may become more clear when there's an official announcement about it, which hopefully details its payload. Maybe the reason there hasn't been announcement yet is Directv hasn't decided exactly what payload to include.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
  8. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking less transponders equals more room for more batteries etc. there must be net size they just can't go over.
     
  9. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Actually I think it's, "the solar panels need to produce an excess amount of power in order to both recharge the batteries plus power the spacecraft's subsystems when the satellite emerges from behind the earth's shadow" ...

    (i.e., when it comes out of "satellite eclipse")

    Anyway, good find on D16 ... totally slipped under the radar here. And sort of surprised DIRECTV hasn't filed an LOA by now as they normally do several years in advance of a satellite's actual manufacture.



    Sent from my LGMS550 using Tapatalk
     
  10. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Los...
    Actually looking at what you wrote another way, this may have been what you meant...

    That is, the extra solar power capacity is necessary so the satellite has charged batteries when in eclipse...

    So my correction is withdrawn if that is the case ....

    Sent from my LGMS550 using Tapatalk
     
  11. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    The fun part of the budget is that the power can be used for Ka and RB transponders where licensed and DBS transponders where licensed. If the satellite ends up at a location where all three are needed then it could be paired with a second (or third satellite - but the flexibility remains
     
  12. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    I guess it depends on whether solar panels or batteries are ultimately the limiting factor.
     
  13. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    I think the advance LOA is only needed for initially filling new spectrum, like they were doing with Ka and then RB, to prove to the FCC that they are making progress required to be able to keep the spectrum license. Where they already have an operating satellite that will be replaced, they probably don't need to file anything until they're ready to launch.

    Who knows, maybe there won't be any info about it until it is ready to deliver to the launch facility. Not only no info about the transponder package, but maybe not even about when it is supposed to be completed.
     
  14. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's how D15 was designed. It has 14 Ka lo and 24 Ka hi CONUS transponders, but can only power 24 of them at once, along with reverse band. Not sure if it could power 24 Ka along with the 32 Ku if it was located at 101, but beyond a patent for an LNB that could receive Ka from 101 filed years ago, they've never indicated they plan to use it for customer broadcast.

    At least if they decide to do so it would fit in the 6 coax band plan they have now. If they dropped 110/119 they have room from 950-1450 MHz on four coaxes to handle both polarities of Ka lo and Ka hi. :)
     
  15. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    A little more information has dribbled out. According to Stuart's blog, it will be called "Directv T16". Googling for Directv-T16 I found SANA has assigned it a record, and listed the expected launch date as Aug. 1 of next year! https://sanaregistry.org/r/spacecraft/753

    Given the construction contract was just last year, and how launch operators are always behind schedule, launching in just over a year seems impossibly optimistic. Maybe it is just a placeholder, though you'd expect them to leave it blank in that case like they other fields, such as operating location, so maybe they know something we don't. Perhaps Directv wants it in place in time to take over 101 after the MPEG2 shutdown, though you'd think they would have started construction earlier if that was the case. Did the whole AT&T buyout thing freeze major capital spending and put them behind schedule, so now they have to play catch up?

    Stuart still seems to be of the opinion that 119 will go away in 2019. The extension for D7S runs out in 2021 so it does seem to be true that 119 will need a replacement satellite if Directv intends to continue to use it in the long run. There are other options though. D8 currently located at 101 has fuel life until 2034, and D9S doesn't use up its initial license until 2021 and will probably be extended until at least the mid to late 2020s. Once T16 (or possibly D15) takes over 101, D8 & D9S could be moved to 119 so Directv can continue using it for ... something ... to keep Dish from getting those transponders. Unless Directv doesn't think giving Dish 14 new transponders at 110 & 119 would improve their competitive position in a meaningful way.
     
  16. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Something telling me the "T" designation is pointing to telecommunication purpose of the sat... time will tell.
     
  17. djmaxwell

    djmaxwell Cool Member

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    I'm going to guess that it is AT&T vs DirecTV.
     
  18. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    AT&T has long been referred to as 'T' - their NYSE ticker symbol. Stuart's blog also said they were now referring to D14 and D15 as T14 and T15. Besides, the original articles about "Directv-16" specifically said it was for Directv, not for AT&T. It is definitely intended for Directv's fleet, not an AT&T specific telecommunications purpose.
     
  19. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    I wouldn't spiraling up the discussion ... prefer do wait for real announcements.
     
  20. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    I was checking to see if there was anything official yet, still nothing but I did find this guy's Linkedin when I searched: https://www.linkedin.com/in/florian-lugassy/

    Looks like the design process is underway.


    Mechanical Design Engineer

    Company Name ALTEN
    Dates Employed Nov 2016 – Sep 2017
    Employment Duration 11 mos
    Location Portsmouth, United Kingdom



    I worked at Airbus Defence & Space's Mechanical Design Office.
    My main tasks and responsibilities included:
    - Preparation of bills of material
    - General Assembly Drawings using CATIA V5 for equipments, waveguides and coax cables for payload of telecommunication satellites.

    The missions I have had the opportunity to work on include DirecTV T16, Eutelsat Quantum, Inmarsat 6 and Eutelsat E5WB
     

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