Have no idea where you are getting your numbers. First off, there are (according to Tivo as of July 31st, 2nd quarter earnings call) there were less then 1.9 million DirecTivo subscriptions left and dropping by nearly 200K (and increasing) a quarter. Assuming those number hold there may be only around 1 million DirecTivo subs by the time this new HD DirecTivo box makes the market and that assumes end of 2009. And in that 1.9 million Tivo also counts all their Comcast Tivo subs as they don't separate out DirecTV any more. So it's probably more like 1.8 or 1.7 million I'd guess. And guess what, most of us on this very forum count in that number. Heck, I have an HR20 and an HR21 but I still have an old SD DirecTivo on the account. Thus I count in that 1.9 million. And I have no idea where you get the idea that these subs "refuse" to get the HD DirecTV DVR. Nearly 200K a quarter get deactivated but that doesn't mean they are leaving. Yet DirecTV's churn numbers are at historic lows and they keep on growing. So the leap you make in that statement doesn't really jive with the bottom line. And now nearly half of all DirecTV subs (8 million) either have HD and/or DVR. So you can speculate that most people get a DVR and on the low side you can say at least 5-6 million of DirecTV 18 million have the DirecTV DVR, under 1.9 have a DirecTivo and many of those subs cross so the DirecTV DVR numbers are probably higher. R15's have been off commitment going on 2 years now. And the first HR20 subs have been coming off commitment for a couple months now. Yet churn is down, sub growth up. What it all means to this thread I don't know but there are the numbers. So to me DirecTV doesn't need Tivo at all, they could have kept going their own way. The only reason they do anything is for *money*. This deal most likely is more to keep access to the Tivo patents and keep from being sued in the meantime. And I guess why not let Tivo put out a new Tivo box so long as it doesn't cost DirecTV anything in the end. Maybe they'll make a bit of money to boot.