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DIRECTV HD Receiver with TiVo (Official Q1 2010 Thread)

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Stuart Sweet, Dec 22, 2009.

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  1. Jan 15, 2010 #541 of 1240
    Stuart Sweet

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    And you know, that all may be true. It's as compelling a story as any other. It still puts the blame squarely at TiVo's feet for not keeping the code modern, though, doesn't it?
     
  2. Jan 15, 2010 #542 of 1240
    Syzygy

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    Four days ago, when I read the penultimate paragraph of Ken_F's authoritative-sounding post, I was very happy to hear that "TiVo has devoted most of its resources to a new platform for the past 18+ months." I realize how hard it is for any software development group to start over again; hardly anyone ever does it. Kudos to TiVo!

    But all a DirecTV-lover can think of is "here's another opportunity to blame TiVo for something." It's the old pop-psychology chant, "DirecTV's not OK, but then TiVo's not OK either."
     
  3. Jan 15, 2010 #543 of 1240
    Stuart Sweet

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    So now we're hauling out transactional analysis and using it to put words in my mouth?

    Nice try.

    If TiVo deserves credit for undertaking an overhaul of its code, then it deserves equal blame for not doing it sooner. I compare it to Apple, another consumer electronics manufacturer with a niche product. Their original product ran on the Motorola 68k series processor, and then when they moved to the IBM/Motorola PowerPC, their OS was a cobbled together mess. System 7 had some interesting ideas but it sure wasn't what it should have been, and OS 8 and OS 9 merely kept things going.

    Then OS X came out. First of all this was a complete reimagining of what the Apple OS should be. It owed as much to Nextstep as it did to previous Mac OS's. It was a hard road, but Apple persevered and continued to offer Classic support...

    all the time developing what they really wanted, which was an Intel version of OS X. They developed ahead of the need, not behind it. And you know, I don't have a lot good to say about Apple, but they keep their developers looking forward.

    If, as Ken F says, TiVo realized what a pain it would be to port their old software to a new platform, be it an interpreted one like Java or a compiled one, they should have immediately begun their program to develop this new, platform-independent software... back in 2005 or 2006.

    If TiVo undertook the task of rewriting its core app in 2008, then great for them, but you can't gloss over the fact that they should have started earlier.

    Whatever they did or didn't do, I'm not a TiVo insider. In fact I wish them well but I really don't care what they do. But in the meantime I'm not going to ignore the conclusion that the delay is still due to TiVo.
     
  4. Jan 15, 2010 #544 of 1240
    texasmoose

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    All I'm hopeful for is that this new collaberation will feature the current TiVo functionality of offloading/archiving content to my PC. But, I'm sure the powers that be are scared of this because of DRM management.
     
  5. Jan 15, 2010 #545 of 1240
    Stuart Sweet

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    texasmoose, given the climate at DIRECTV, I'd be extraordinarily surprised to see that feature.
     
  6. Jan 15, 2010 #546 of 1240
    jacmyoung

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    I read that post before, thought he was just joking. But now it appears people take it at least semi seriously, so my response is:

    Pee on the floor then bend over and have a good look at yourself (a Chinese student once explained it to me BTW), do you even have any luxury to be choosy? Just beg DirecTV for an MPEG4 hardware and plug some ##$% software in, slap a TiVo logo on. You don't have time to be such a snob.

    If you are on the edge of a cliff, do you even care what kind of straw are you going to grab?
     
  7. Jan 15, 2010 #547 of 1240
    Ken_F

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    I don't think you can reasonably conclude anything from that.

    The CSRs at TiVo only learn about new products 2-4 weeks before release, if that. The same thing goes for DirecTV and many other CE vendors. If CSRs know anything firm about an upcoming product, then you know release is imminent. The fact that they don't know anything only tells you release is at least 2-4 weeks out.

    I have no inside knowledge about the features, functionality, or status of the DirecTiVo or any other TiVo product.

    There is only speculation of delay at this point. As far as we know, the product is still on schedule and there is no delay to their internal timeline. People are making too much of the DirecTiVo's absence at CES; it is not in DirecTV's interest to allow demos until both the hardware and software are ready to ship. DirecTV did not show the HR24, but that doesn't necessarily say anything about its status either.

    People are speculating about the reasons for an assumed delay, which is a bit ridiculous. If there is an actual delay, there are too many unknowns to speculate which party bears the most responsibility. We have no idea what requirements DirecTV set for the product, nor do we know how far TiVo is in meeting those requirements. Excluding members under NDA, we know nothing about the stability or maturity of the next DirecTV DVR hardware platform.
     
  8. Jan 15, 2010 #548 of 1240
    Stuart Sweet

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    Or even the meaning of the words "next DIRECTV DVR hardware platform."
     
  9. Jan 15, 2010 #549 of 1240
    Syzygy

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    To me it seems the advent of TiVo's "start-from-scratch" may have coincided with their agreement with DirecTV to build the new MPEG-4 DirecTiVo. Probably, TiVo couldn't have undertaken the task without DirecTV's cash influx. That would explain why it didn't start back in 2005 or 2006.
     
  10. Jan 15, 2010 #550 of 1240
    SledgeHammer

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    Hmm... thats funny.

    I have an HR20-100. Its running the current (or last or whatever) national release (I dropped out of the CE program a long time ago cuz I really had better things to do then weekly updates that broke stuff and erased guide info).

    Anyways...

    Just last week, I wanted to record a program on BIO. Knowing BIO is the worst channel there is when it comes to stretching SD content for the HD channel, BUT noting the 2010 production date, I wasn't sure if the program would be real HD or stretched HD. So I set my DVR to record both the HD and SD versions of the show from 8pm to 9pm on BIO and BIOHD.

    You know what my retarded DVR ended up doing?

    1) It recorded BIO SD from 8:00pm to 8:01pm
    2) It recorded BIO HD from 8:01pm to 9:00pm

    The 59 min HD version was of course stretched :rolleyes:.

    Why it only recorded one minute of the SD version is beyond me. I've seen that bug before though.
     
  11. Jan 15, 2010 #551 of 1240
    Brennok

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    I wonder and I may be completely off on this but is it possible that up until 2008 Broadcom didn't have a chipset that could justify a complete rewrite? Maybe someone more informed may know, but if the chipset isn't there I would imagine it would be tough to try to do a rewrite until hardware was in hand.

    In someways and maybe incorrectly I assume it would be similar to game developers trying to write code for a game for the next generation of the Xbox 360 or PS3. Until they actually know what the hardware can do and how it does it, could they really program for it beyond the basics if they could even do that?
     
  12. Jan 15, 2010 #552 of 1240
    Doug Brott

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    Well, the DIRECTV/TiVo announcement did mention 2nd half of 2009:

    Directv.com
    I'm sure there are semantics here, but on the surface I'd already say that the delay is no longer "assumed" but fact.
     
  13. Jan 15, 2010 #553 of 1240
    Alan Gordon

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    Considering TiVo's financial status these last few years (how long ago did they get Dish money?), one has to wonder if they simply didn't have enough (programmer) manpower to work on all their irons in the fire (ComcasTiVo, CoxTiVo, etc...)

    Simply put, while I commend TiVo's (rumored) forward thinking, my TiVo Series 3 still works great, so I have trouble understanding why it's that bad of a thing that TiVo took so long to start...

    ~Alan
     
  14. Jan 15, 2010 #554 of 1240
    Richierich

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    I have worked in IT as a Programmer/Consultant for more than 30 years and I would say about 90% of all Major Projects I have worked on Never met the First Initial Deadline.

    Murphy's Law will jump up and bite you in a Heartbeat so you might as well factor that into the equation but alot of the time Upper Management makes decisions for Timelines that are just Unrealistic to the Lower Level Coders and managers who really know the technical problems that will be faced and that there are many that we will not know until they surface.
     
  15. Jan 15, 2010 #555 of 1240
    Ken_F

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    That PR was issued 9/2008. The TiVo CEO has said "early 2010" or "2010" for the better part of the last year.

    Members are speculating on a new delay, not the original delay.
     
  16. Jan 15, 2010 #556 of 1240
    Syzygy

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    Others have said that TiVo is still waiting for the balance of the money from Dish (plus interest) -- something about Dish appealing the judgment. So I presume TiVo is currently strapped for cash, and has been for quite a while.
     
  17. Jan 15, 2010 #557 of 1240
    Alan Gordon

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    My feelings exactly...

    Too easy! ;)

    I don't know what to tell you. I have issues with the HR2x... the 50 Series Link limit is a particular point of anger these last couple of weeks, and I could talk of other issues, some big, some little, but it's pretty reliable for me on the recordings. I have no complaints there... :)

    ~Alan
     
  18. Jan 15, 2010 #558 of 1240
    Alan Gordon

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    That doesn't just go for programming projects either. Trust me, I know...

    ~Alan
     
  19. Jan 15, 2010 #559 of 1240
    Ken_F

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    TiVo received ~$104 million back in October, 2008. An additional ~$300 million is pending the appeal.
     
  20. Jan 15, 2010 #560 of 1240
    Sixto

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    Exactly.

    And it was recently that Tom said "early 2010".

    Was trying to find a exact quote a few days ago. It wasn't in the last analyst call. I need to look back further.
     
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