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DIRECTV HD Receiver with TiVo (Official Q1 2011 Thread)

132K views 1K replies 121 participants last post by  hdtvfan0001 
#1 ·
Folks, there's precious little to say about the upcoming DIRECTV TiVo-based device that hasn't already been said, but here's the thread for you to say it.

Synopsis of common arguments: (in other words, this ground's already been trodden, do we have to go there again?)
  • Many people like the TiVo interface, especially the list guide.
  • Many people are equally fond of the DIRECTV interface.
  • Many people think that TiVos are easier for them to use.
  • Many people think that DIRECTV DVRs are easier for them to use.
  • Standalone TiVo devices have many features that are appealing to people.
  • No guarantee has been made that any feature from a standalone TiVo will make it to the DIRECTV TiVo.
  • The new device will run on DIRECTV hardware, although we don't know how that will work (we have some ideas).
  • TiVo, Inc. will develop the software for the device and seems to be solely responsible for the user experience.
Ground Rules:
  • This is not a free-for-all. Rudeness will not be tolerated.
  • Remember that all forum rules are still in effect.
  • Do not "bump" this thread.
  • Other threads relating to the DirecTV TiVo-HD Receiver will be closed.
  • If you harp on a particular point to the exclusion of others, your posts may be deleted.

Further, we've learned that the new TiVo for DIRECTV will not have the upgraded user experience seen in the TiVo Premiere.
 
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#152 ·
cbessant said:
When you announce a product and say "this when we'll deliver" (MPEG-4 TiVo) and then you yank support for the existing product (MPEG-2 TiVo), and then keep pushing the time-line out, that is bull. It wouldn't be hard to modify a current TiVo HD platform to work with DTV. DTV wants their own hardware for whatever reason, and to delay for 2 years is bull. They never should have said anything until they knew they had a real release date. This all about DTV's bottom line, and has nothing to do with the customer. I the customer were important, they'd have a new HD TiVo release.
When I talked to TiVo last year at CES (I won't be going this weekend, someone else can talk to them, if they are there) they were emphatic that they would be delivering during the summer 2010. This was TiVo...I had heard since that there were some problems on TiVo's end (software I think), which I'm uncertain of the specifics. Suffice it to say, it wasn't DirecTV who is holding them back.

While your statement is true, that the HR10-250 could be revamped to be compatible TiVo chose a different path, not DirecTV. DirecTV only has so much influence on TiVo to make design requirements, and keep TiVo within the DirecTV satellite line.

Your last sentence is unrealistic, especially if there are problems with development (I'm not saying there are), and TiVo wants to release a more finished product versus a half-completed-problematic-set-top-box. It will be done when it is done, patience is, as they say, a virtue. :)
 
#153 ·
cbessant said:
When you announce a product and say "this when we'll deliver" (MPEG-4 TiVo) and then you yank support for the existing product (MPEG-2 TiVo), and then keep pushing the time-line out, that is bull. It wouldn't be hard to modify a current TiVo HD platform to work with DTV. DTV wants their own hardware for whatever reason, and to delay for 2 years is bull. They never should have said anything until they knew they had a real release date. This all about DTV's bottom line, and has nothing to do with the customer. I the customer were important, they'd have a new HD TiVo release.

I believe when you say the others providers are bad. This is what happens when you have a protected franchise licensed by a city gov't. No choices. I don't have a choice as satellite is my only option, and I knew that when we move to the country. I'd rather have choices between crappy providers than no choice at all. Sure, they nickel and dime you to death, not good. They all do.

I'm thankful for 1.5Mbps DSL and access to 3Mbps wireless. I have a choice.

:nono2:
You may not realize is that the only word DirecTV has ever said about it was the original press release some 2 and a half years ago that Tivo was building a new box. That's it. Any news and timelines/dates that have come out since then have all been Tivo talking. DirecTV hasn't said a word. And why would they, they can't tell you or me when it will be for sale until Tivo finishes it and delivers a finished product. Complain to Tivo.

As for the transition to MPEG4, I knew all about that about the time the HR10-250 (the old DirecTivo HD) which is why I never got one. I wasn't going to spend 800-1000 bucks on something I knew would be obsolete within 2 years. And the transition to MPEG4 has nothing to do with Tivo, but all about moving a direction the entire industry was heading (and still is) to MPEG4. Also they needed to light up 2 new satellite spots (99 and 103) which the HR10-250 could not tune to either (nor could any other old HD equipment).

Hate DirecTV all you want but Tivo was just caught up in the wash on the whole HD transition. As for not in the customer's best interest....ummm you do realize that DirecTV has had a very functional HD DVR for several years now. And more then half of their 19 million customers has one. Very, very few people are "waiting for a Tivo". So they have responded to their customer wants and provide them with an HD DVR. It's just not the one you want unfortunately. Perhaps if you got an HR2x a couple years ago while you waited you would have had HD all this time and perhaps grown to like it like many others have. If not at least you had HD while you waited.

Good luck to you.
 
#154 ·
Please allow me the opportunity to commend Doug, Stuart, Tom, Scott, and others for keeping everyone informed of what is happening on this front. That said, there are limits to what is known at any given time - this is a moving target.

Note: I do not work for DirecTV, nor TiVo, and in fact was a former HR10-250 user years ago when the previous unit was an active device in our household. I have no personal urgency nor interest in this project...just a desire to learn like many others and share information if and when obtained.

Regroup on the facts.

1) DirecTV and TiVo announced an agreement in September 2008 that they would partner to release a co-branded HD DVR device that would work with the DirecTV satellite broadcast channel system. The announced goal was for a release some time 4Q 2009.

2) At that same time, the requirements and hardware platform (for development and testing) was provided to TiVo for them to proceed with the project. At that point, TiVo owned all work on the project.

3) Fast forward to 1Q 2010, where no signs of any finished product surfaced at CES 2010 last January. Soon thereafter, word got out that the project was delayed and now targeted for a "late 2010" release.

4) Recently, without any formal announcement, rumors of a 2Q 2011 release appeared in various posts and sites, along with notifications that TiVo was seeking a "2nd group of testers" for the new device. This seemed to confirm that the new unit was getting closer to some form of conclusion, and that it was far enough along that testing was being conducted.

5) During this lengthy timeframe, DirecTV has continued to advance their own fleet of HD DVR's with new models and new capabilities.

6) CES 2011 starts later this week, and a number of DBSTalkers will be there to make every attempt to learn an actual status from the TiVo meeting room personnel onsite. Since this area is closed to the general attendees, and typically requires a direct invitation to enter their rooms, this can be a challenge. Yet last year, several folks were able to gain access.

If any information is learned at CES 2011, those folks onsite will do their best to get the info and share what can be shared.

Despite all the finger-pointing on the reasons or cause of any delays, and related confusion in this thread to date...again...a number of folks here have worked very hard to keep focus on these facts and the status as this has all evolved after a long period of time.

Kudos to them for the job they've done to date.

To be clear - TiVo owns this project until delivery, and a publicly-confirmed delivery date has not been announced.
 
#155 ·
The HR10-250 could not be used without hardware modifications .. It does not have an MPEG4 decoder on board. It really didn't make sense for TiVo to build from the ground up a new hardware device .. One could certainly argue that it doesn't make sense now that TiVo is using the previous generation hardware, but had they come out on time, it would have made a lot more sense. The 16 month delay is helping no one.
 
#157 ·
JBernardK said:
The series 3 TiVos are MPEG2. Cable and OTA do not use MPEG4.
Yes, good point and I should have caught that as well. The big difference is between MPEG4 and MPEG2 .. but in the grand scheme of things it's a non-factor. MPEG4 trick play is not bad, but it is slightly different than MPEG2.
 
#158 ·
Even if it does eventually get off the ground this year I think all the momentum has been lost and I, for one, almost certainly won't bother. We were pretty early adopters of the original Tivo, got Dtivos when we switched to Direct in '01, and paid about a grand for the HR10-250 when that came out.

Had there been a Tivo alternative to the HR2x when MPEG4 HD rolled out we'd have sold our first-born to get one, or two, but three years on we're now fully acclimatised to the HR2x interface and we have all the internet streaming capabilities we could want through our BD-players and game consoles so I really can't see us changing again at this point.
 
#159 ·
Sysyphus said:
Even if it does eventually get off the ground this year I think all the momentum has been lost and I, for one, almost certainly won't bother. We were pretty early adopters of the original Tivo, got Dtivos when we switched to Direct in '01, and paid about a grand for the HR10-250 when that came out.

Had there been a Tivo alternative to the HR2x when MPEG4 HD rolled out we'd have sold our first-born to get one, or two, but three years on we're now fully acclimatised to the HR2x interface and we have all the internet streaming capabilities we could want through our BD-players and game consoles so I really can't see us changing again at this point.
+1. My Feelings Exactly!!!

Why bother at this point when the HR2X DVRs work so well and we have WHDVR Service which the new Directivo may not and that definitely would be a Deal Breaker!!!
 
#160 ·
cbessant said:
It wouldn't be hard to modify a current TiVo HD platform to work with DTV.
Major lolz. The TiVO HD is designed for CableCard. DTV is a completely different animal. Its more then a few lines of software change. The hardware is completely different and the software is oh, like 50% or more different.

Actually, since the last reliable rumors indicate its going to run on DTV hardware, the software is probably > 50% different.
 
#161 ·
DTV contracted with TiVo and announced a product would be made available in Fall 2009. DTV moved forwarded in April 2010 and removed all MPEG 2 HD, and as I recall reading some place, except for hotels and college dorms (contractual stuff probably). And, the MPEG2 made a brief 1 week re-appearance on the TiVo guide in early June yet didn't work. Sure I know it was a program guide mistake.

The problem is, DTV is agent for TiVo, and I need to buy products from DTV, not TiVo - is this TiVo's fault? And while TiVo may be the hold-up, DTV hasn't done much of anything to provide information, only crickets in the background. This would be like Volvo announcing a car with a new gizmo, then delaying, delaying, delaying due to vendor delivery issues. Who gets the slushy thrown at them?

I too look forward to what is presented at CES. And, I do appreciate what DBSTalk can provide. Thank you. Obviously, TiVo and DTV aren't chatting this up a whole lot. DTV's first mistake was getting rid of a good product in favor of an NDS box (thank you Rupert Murdoch for several years of an inferior box because you had an interest in NDS), TiVo, when it did rather than moving forward. (Water under the bridge at this point.)

I remember in the early 1990s when the new Denver airport was suppose to open. Someone was selling t-shirts with like 8 different opening dates with the previous ones crossed-out. I see an opportunity to sell more t-shirts...

We'll see if something is released in Q2FY2010.
 
#162 ·
bonscott87 said:
You may not realize is that the only word DirecTV has ever said about it was the original press release some 2 and a half years ago that Tivo was building a new box. That's it. Any news and timelines/dates that have come out since then have all been Tivo talking. DirecTV hasn't said a word. And why would they, they can't tell you or me when it will be for sale until Tivo finishes it and delivers a finished product. Complain to Tivo.
B.S. I have talked to multiple CSR reps and Retention Reps and was promised on multiple occasions that it would be out in a couple months or soon. You can argue that CSR doesn't know what they are talking about but that is still direct TV's problem of feeding false information. If it were just one CSR I would understand, but coming from multiple CSR's at completly different times in inexcusable.

To the people on here who think Direct TV simply gave Tivo a box and said get your operating system working on it and let us know when your ready to release it must be smoking crack!! I am sure DTV was involved in every step of the design process and the truth probably is closer to a 50 / 50 blame of why this thing is taking so long.
 
#164 ·
ffemtreed said:
B.S. I have talked to multiple CSR reps and Retention Reps and was promised on multiple occasions that it would be out in a couple months or soon. You can argue that CSR doesn't know what they are talking about but that is still direct TV's problem of feeding false information. If it were just one CSR I would understand, but coming from multiple CSR's at completely different times in inexcusable.

To the people on here who think Direct TV simply gave TiVo a box and said get your operating system working on it and let us know when your ready to release it must be smoking crack!! I am sure DTV was involved in every step of the design process and the truth probably is closer to a 50 / 50 blame of why this thing is taking so long.
If someone is relying on scripted responses from a CSR as their information source for the release of new technology...well...their likely gonna be disappointed when reality sets in.

Also...since TiVo is doing all the development work while DirecTV is sitting in wait for a long time (just like apparently a few folks here)...the only thing they could be guilty of is having too much patience.

Otherwise...despite your claims and views to the contrary...there is no physical way anyone but TiVo is responsible for the delivery time frame and delays to this point. That's been quite clear for some time now.

Perhaps after this coming weekend...the blame game critics will have some more accurate information and facts on which to base their frustrations...or else some calming news.
 
#165 ·
cbessant said:
DTV contracted with TiVo and announced a product would be made available in Fall 2009. DTV moved forwarded in April 2010 and removed all MPEG 2 HD, and as I recall reading some place, except for hotels and college dorms (contractual stuff probably). And, the MPEG2 made a brief 1 week re-appearance on the TiVo guide in early June yet didn't work. Sure I know it was a program guide mistake.
:scratchin

DIRECTV has (and has had for over 4 years) DVRs that work with MPEG4 .. Dropping MPEG2 in favor of MPEG4 has nothing to do with a TiVo DVR other than the current TiVo DVR doesn't support MPEG4. The number of TiVo HD DVRs in the field is not (nor has it ever been) substantial. It was diminished greatly as the HR2x rolled out. Keeping the MPEG2 HD for a small number of subscribers was detrimental to the subscriber base and DIRECTV's business plan.

The problem is, DTV is agent for TiVo, and I need to buy products from DTV, not TiVo - is this TiVo's fault? And while TiVo may be the hold-up, DTV hasn't done much of anything to provide information, only crickets in the background. This would be like Volvo announcing a car with a new gizmo, then delaying, delaying, delaying due to vendor delivery issues. Who gets the slushy thrown at them?
perhaps it's not real clear, but DIRECTV only marginally cares whether or not the TiVo ever comes to fruition. The real purpose for DIRECTV to even engage in this relationship (again) was to keep everyone happy from a legal perspective and to keep open the relationship that DIRECTV and TiVo already had for maintaining the older products. While DIRECTV legally is on really good footing (as compared to DISH), DIRECTV took the extra step of negotiating an arrangement with TiVo. This arrangement included DIRECTV saying "Sure, TiVo, you can make an HD DIRECTiVo."

If TiVo brings it to the table .. DIRECTV wins (more subscribers) ..

If TiVo doesn't bring it to the table .. DIRECTV wins (they have their own HD DVR) ..

You're welcome to blame DIRECTV for the delay if it makes you feel better, but putting an halo on TiVo is just being blind to the facts.

I too look forward to what is presented at CES. And, I do appreciate what DBSTalk can provide. Thank you. Obviously, TiVo and DTV aren't chatting this up a whole lot. DTV's first mistake was getting rid of a good product in favor of an NDS box (thank you Rupert Murdoch for several years of an inferior box because you had an interest in NDS), TiVo, when it did rather than moving forward. (Water under the bridge at this point.)
DIRECTV's HD DVR and receivers has always been in-house - not NDS. And as for it being a mistake .. DIRECTV has continued to gain customers quarter after quarter .. If it were such a mistake, then DIRECTV would be losing customers each quarter. The loss of TiVo has not damaged the bottom line of DIRECTV.

I remember in the early 1990s when the new Denver airport was suppose to open. Someone was selling t-shirts with like 8 different opening dates with the previous ones crossed-out. I see an opportunity to sell more t-shirts...

We'll see if something is released in Q2FY2010.
Too many frustrations. I doubt the T-shirt would sell well, but you never know. As for Q2FY2010? :scratchin .. Look for Q2/2011 (calendar year, not fiscal). We're probably about 90 days out now .. give or take.
 
#166 ·
hdtvfan0001 said:
If someone is relying on scripted responses from a CSR as their information source for the release of new technology...well...their likely gonna be disappointed when reality sets in.

Also...since TiVo is doing all the development work while DirecTV is sitting in wait for a long time (just like apparently a few folks here)...the only thing they could be guilty of is having too much patience.

Otherwise...despite your claims and views to the contrary...there is no physical way anyone but TiVo is responsible for the delivery time frame and delays to this point. That's been quite clear for some time now.

Perhaps after this coming weekend...the blame game critics will have some further information and facts on which to base their frustrations...or else some calming news.
It is a sad day when the internet has become more reliable source than the corporations voice to its customers.

I still think that DTV has a lot more to do with the development of the TIVO than you think. If they don't , then I except TIVO to have netflix and tivo2go and a lot of the other bells and whistles that TIVO has on their other boxes. Or did DTV put unrealistic restrictions on what TIVO can or can't do with the box? Did they make it a lot more complicated to program the interface in order to create delays??? Not saying they did, just bringing up a few points that could easily be possible to show DTV has some culpability to the delay.
 
#167 ·
ffemtreed said:
B.S. I have talked to multiple CSR reps and Retention Reps and was promised on multiple occasions that it would be out in a couple months or soon. You can argue that CSR doesn't know what they are talking about but that is still direct TV's problem of feeding false information. If it were just one CSR I would understand, but coming from multiple CSR's at completly different times in inexcusable.

To the people on here who think Direct TV simply gave Tivo a box and said get your operating system working on it and let us know when your ready to release it must be smoking crack!! I am sure DTV was involved in every step of the design process and the truth probably is closer to a 50 / 50 blame of why this thing is taking so long.
Yes, there is cooperation in terms of DIRECTV documenting protocols, etc. Most of that was done long, long ago. DIRECTV also has requirements that need to be met from a quality perspective. But 50/50 .. if 50% is hardware and 50% is software .. yeah, DIRECTV was 50% of it .. but remember the hardware was available the day of the original press release 09/08. The "how to make it work" from DIRECTV had to ready or near ready at that point as well simply because DIRECTV already had it working themselves.
 
#169 ·
Doug Brott said:
Too many frustrations. I doubt the T-shirt would sell well, but you never know. As for Q2FY2010? :scratchin .. Look for Q2/2011 (calendar year, not fiscal). We're probably about 90 days out now .. give or take.
$1 says you'd sell more T-shirts than the DTivo mkII. :hurah:
 
#171 ·
ffemtreed said:
It is a sad day when the internet has become more reliable source than the corporations voice to its customers.

I still think that DTV has a lot more to do with the development of the TIVO than you think. If they don't , then I except TIVO to have netflix and tivo2go and a lot of the other bells and whistles that TIVO has on their other boxes. Or did DTV put unrealistic restrictions on what TIVO can or can't do with the box? Did they make it a lot more complicated to program the interface in order to create delays??? Not saying they did, just bringing up a few points that could easily be possible to show DTV has some culpability to the delay.
I'm sure DIRECTV would respond to questions TiVo may have .. Perhaps some of the delay is due to communication delays between the companies (always easier to work face-to-face), but that doesn't change the fact that TiVo is the one that wants this horse to run. DIRECTV has the subscriber with an HR2x or a TiVo .. TiVo only has the subscriber with a TiVo, so the longer it takes for them to get it out, the less time they have that subscriber and the harder it becomes to regain (lost) subscribers.

As noted earlier .. I'm uncertain about tivo2go now .. I doubt it will be there, but it could be. It will depend on DRM issues and is something that DIRECTV is legally obligated to maintain .. TiVo doesn't have to worry about it as much because they don't deal directly with the content providers like DIRECTV does.

Netflix .. Don't look for that to be there .. Again, as noted before, Netflix is a DIRECT COMPETITOR to DIRECTV with regard to renting movies. What company in their right mind would say "Here, buy something from my competitor .. We don't want your money." So even though TiVo is building the product, I'm sure netflix is out. One less thing to port over ;)
 
#173 ·
Doug Brott said:
I'm sure DIRECTV would respond to questions TiVo may have .. Perhaps some of the delay is due to communication delays between the companies (always easier to work face-to-face), but that doesn't change the fact that TiVo is the one that wants this horse to run. DIRECTV has the subscriber with an HR2x or a TiVo .. TiVo only has the subscriber with a TiVo, so the longer it takes for them to get it out, the less time they have that subscriber and the harder it becomes to regain (lost) subscribers.

As noted earlier .. I'm uncertain about tivo2go now .. I doubt it will be there, but it could be. It will depend on DRM issues and is something that DIRECTV is legally obligated to maintain .. TiVo doesn't have to worry about it as much because they don't deal directly with the content providers like DIRECTV does.

Netflix .. Don't look for that to be there .. Again, as noted before, Netflix is a DIRECT COMPETITOR to DIRECTV with regard to renting movies. What company in their right mind would say "Here, buy something from my competitor .. We don't want your money." So even though TiVo is building the product, I'm sure netflix is out. One less thing to port over ;)
You missed my point, My point was if it were totally true that DTV just said here is the box put your software on it and we have no further obligations just make something happen, why wouldn't tivo put all its features into it? The reason is because DTV does have a lot of say of what is and isn't going into the box and needs to approve of just about everything TIVO does with the system. You are absolutely correct, DTV has almost no motive to help TIVO along. I am sure they would love for it to never launch so they don't have to worry about training CSR's, field techs and etc. I am not putting any burden of the blame on either company, but I am not naive enough to believe this is all strictly tivo's fault and DTV has clean hands.
 
#174 ·
ffemtreed said:
You are absolutely correct, DTV has almost no motive to help TIVO along. I am sure they would love for it to never launch so they don't have to worry about training CSR's, field techs and etc.
Directv does have a Motive in having the Directivo launch as it will bring some TiVoTees and TiVoholics to Directv that are maybe thinking of leaving whatever service they have now and this may the the One Thing that forces them to leave and come to Directv!!!!
 
#175 ·
Offer a product. Then cancel it. Then announce you'll offer it again and take a laissez-faire approach to product release and don't keep the customer informed. Can't blame DTV for using their own hardware, cha-ching for them, and then expecting a vendor to code software to run on it using their (DTV's) requirements/specifications. Did DTV really think customers would like this approach? Really? And whomever at DTV is responsible for managing this project - geez.... Glad the don't design planes or make iPods.
 
#176 ·
ffemtreed said:
You missed my point, My point was if it were totally true that DTV just said here is the box put your software on it and we have no further obligations just make something happen, why wouldn't tivo put all its features into it? The reason is because DTV does have a lot of say of what is and isn't going into the box and needs to approve of just about everything TIVO does with the system. You are absolutely correct, DTV has almost no motive to help TIVO along. I am sure they would love for it to never launch so they don't have to worry about training CSR's, field techs and etc. I am not putting any burden of the blame on either company, but I am not naive enough to believe this is all strictly tivo's fault and DTV has clean hands.
+1, well said.
 
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