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DIRECTV HD Receiver with TiVo (Official Q2 2011 Thread)

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Mike Bertelson, Mar 16, 2011.

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  1. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    Sorry. Reading on an iPhone sometimes means I read things wrong.
     
  2. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    :) Move up to a real iPad... :)
     
  3. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

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    Well, I can't comment on your local channel PQ since I see you live in Georgia. I live in So Cal near Los Angeles, so I pull in the LA feed. The LA feed and the NY feed are generally the best quality since those two are the "money" feeds.

    I have an HR20-700 (or is it a -100?)... either way, its the one with the built in OTA. I do have the OTA hooked up and it pulls in the LA channels. I'm about 30 miles from LA. I think the PQ difference between the OTA and the DTV feed are pretty indistinguishable.

    I did show the two to my dad a few years ago and he seemed to think the OTA was SLIGHTLY better, but he said he probably couldn't pick it out in a blind test.

    EDIT: Some of the lower end OTA channels aren't all too good in the PQ department.
     
  4. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    I totally disagree. I am very particular, and there is no discernible difference between the feeds here in Los Angeles. And since you don't have an MPEG-4 receiver, how would you know anyway? The Locals in HD when they where broadcast in MPEG-2 where inferior, that is true, which is the only thing you might have seen with a tivo if you lived in one of the two markets that showed mpeg-2 hd feeds...
     
  5. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    Pockets aren't big enough! ;)
     
  6. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    If Doug didn't understand Steve, why did steve say to doug.... "Ding! Ding! Ding! Give the man a cigar! " :)

    I think you missed the point entirely.

    Comcast and tivo didn't dissolve their relationship at all. I don't know where you keep getting that idea. They simply changed it because Tivo could never get their software to work properly on the existing Comcast boxes. They are now going to actually sell the TIVO branded and built boxes to their customers instead of trying to put the software on the current boxes. They are adding the VOD capability to the tivo boxes so that customers won't have to loose any abilities to use a tivo with comcast over the comcast branded boxes. This obviously turned out to be much easier to implement, and comcast and tivo where probably growing tired of waiting to get the software right, and realized this was a faster solution, more elegant solution, and was immediate implementable, thereby making money for each now... These two companies are still exchanging monies and have a contract. They just changed its structure so they could make more money now and stop wasting money on development of something that has proven to be very difficult to build.... That has nothing to do with Dish agreeing to terms with Tivo. Comcasts development fees where development fees for a new box, not licensing fees...

    Directvs fees where as much a licensing deal as they where a payment for development, as both where included into one contract which is still a totally valid payment. Comcast hasn't stopped that, and how anyone could see the settlement between dish and tivo as anything other than showing that tivo will win if they take you to court is beyond me. If Charlie thought he'd win, he never would have stopped. Tivo would have lost. Instead, tivo got dish to sign a agreement with them, something Directv decided to do long ago, which allowed them to avoid all the legal battles that Dish just went though.

    I still think we will see the directivo, but as with all things tivo, it looks like they still have some software work to do, based on doug saying the release has been pushed back a little bit. Sounds like normal tivo issues to me... Just like the hr10-250 was delayed for ages before it hit...
     
  7. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    No, Doug was not confused. He summarized what I was trying to say perfectly, IMO. Hopefully he's enjoying his cigar. :p
     
  8. jacmyoung

    jacmyoung Hall Of Fame

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    That is because he did not want to admit wrong. When I said the $15M DirecTV paid TiVo in 2010 had no answer to it either in the past or in the near future, Steve was quick to point out but back in 2006...then Doug pointed out but Steve was talking about "future" new subs. Doug misinterpreted Steve's remark, but of course Steve was more than happy to go along with it.

    The fact of matter is there was no such 20k new DirecTiVo subs that could have justified the $15M DirecTV paid TiVo for in 2010, nor will there be such new subs in the near future to break even on it. Steve attacked my such statement, my statement still stands.

    I never said they dissolved their relationship. What I said was, they had finally terminated an agreement which was based on a licensing fee structure, and replaced it with a new agreement that purely benefits Comcast, where TiVo subs now can finally get Comcast VOD service, of course they must first be a Comcast sub too. This new agreement benefits Comcast more than it benefits TiVo, more importantly it is not based on a licensing structure, rather a profit sharing structure where Comcast sits there collect fees, because TiVo will be the one to provide the hardware. It is almost the opposite of the old agreement.

    You may argue the change was a techical one, like many of you continue to argue the delay on the DirecTiVo is a techical one, yet the timing of the agreements always seem to coincide with the court activities, whether with DirecTV or with Comcast.
     
  9. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Seriously!? I summarized the way I interpreted Steve .. Steve agreed with my summary and now you're saying that we're both wrong about Steve's comments?

    Dude you are smoking something really strong to make a leap like that.
     
  10. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Legend

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    Thank you all for my early afternoon chuckle. At one point there was language reminiscent of Donald Rumsfeld with his known knowns, known unknowns, unknown knowns and unknown unknowns. I'd explain it to you but the explanation could require explanation.
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    :lol:

    I just checked, and this calendar says there's a full moon tonite. That may explain it!
     
  12. jacmyoung

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    Steve said you were smoking his cigars, didn't you?:)

    Look he said TiVo had this many subs in 2006, he never said of any "future" new subs as you interpreted.

    There is no future new subs from this new DirecTiVo thing when the delay continues. Before we talk about any of such 20k new DirecTiVo subs, could you first confirm when this thing will be out? First thing first.

    Last I read you said your June/July thing was no longer good. The $15M was paid to TiVo back over a year ago, when do you predict DirecTV will add 20k new DirecTiVo subs to break it even? A year from now?
     
  13. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    yeah .. since June/July is no longer good, it means sometime after that .. sorry it wasn't clear :rolleyes:

    Honestly, I don't know. I know what I think I know but I'm not really confident in the information I do have now so all I'm going to say is June/July is off the table - it wasn't just a short time back.

    saying there are "no future subs" is still a forward looking statement. I don't think you can definitely say that there will be "no subs" in the future. In fact, I believe that this product will still be released - I haven't been told of any cancellation, I know it is being actively worked on. From that, I would infer that there will in fact be some future subs.

    Now back to the 20k subs ..

    STEVE PULLED THE 20K SUBS OUT OF THIN AIR

    This wasn't something that Steve said existed or even implied that DIRECTV would be able to reach this number. What he said .. which you are not grasping .. is that since DIRECTV spent $15mm and the standard Subscriber acquisition cost is $700 .. It would take 20k subs to break even ..

    Now, even that math is not exact because that would only be $14mm, right. But it's all hypothetical .. napkin math to get near the answer, not to land on exact detailed answers.

    The point is not that DIRECTV will have 20K subs .. Just that it will take 20K subs to break even. No where, not once was it ever suggested that DIRECTV paid TiVo the development fee and 20K subs magically appeared.
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    Since a harsh post made me look it up, the actual amount paid by DirecTV to TiVO was $15.4 million, instead of my $20 million WAG, so I revised my estimate down.

     
  15. jacmyoung

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    I never questioned Steve's math. Even a grade schooler can do that math. But it takes more to ask the question, when are you going to see that break even point for that money paid to TiVo? As far as I know DirecTV under the agreement wil continue to pay such fees to TiVo, so when do you think a break even point can make business sense?

    Comcast has cut out that fee, see if DirecTV can.
     
  16. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    You made claims about contracts and their similarity. I'm still waiting to see them contracts...
     
  17. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    I'm not a psychic .. I don't know when that will happen. I could guess, speculate, assume, but I could be wrong. If I could see the future, trust me I'd be a rich man and doing something else.

    Hmmmm ... $15mm from DIRECTV for development ... $500mm from DISH (post lawyer fees) for giving TiVo the finger - and losing. Honestly, I think DIRECTV's ahead on this one .. Getting back to break even would only be icing on the cake. So really, the decision already makes business sense for DIRECTV. Why do you think many of us have stated more over two years now that this arrangement is a win-win .. Both TiVo & DIRECTV win. If the project doesn't result in an actual product, then the only loser is TiVo. DIRECTV may not get back to break even in that case on a pure dollar perspective, but they also didn't thumb their nose at TiVo and end up $500mm in the hole.

    Yup .. because as was stated above. Comcast and TiVo changed their agreement .. They decided in essence to scrap the original project and go a different route. Both TiVo and Comcast had to agree, it's not like they Comcast could simply rewrite the contract because they reached a point in time that the original agreement wasn't working for them. If TiVo wanted, they could have held them to the original contract. Obligations are just that .. obligations. But yes contracts can be renegotiated, especially when a change will benefit both parties. That seems to be what happened here.

    Also, remember $15mm is roughly 80-cents per subscriber - amortize that over 5 years and that's a 16-cent increase everyone's bill. It really doesn't matter .. while $15mm is a lot to you or me, it's pretty much pocket change for DIRECTV. I actually don't care when the will realize a break even point because from a business perspective I consider it moot.
     
  18. jacmyoung

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    I read that Comcast had paid TiVo up to $9M technology fee based on the old agreement. The new agreement clearly does not have such obligation because TiVo will be selling its own Premiere HDDVRs.
     
  19. jacmyoung

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    Doug, you don't have to convince me when it comes to playing with TiVo, both DirecTV and Comcast have better attorneys than Charlie had:)

    It appears Charlie even overpaid TiVo in his settlement. But he hardly got the short end of the stick, after the settlement his stock has gone up 30%, while TiVo has gone down.
     
  20. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    Dude. It had nothing to do with Charlies attorneys. It had to do with stealing technology.

    Directv has something better than attorneys anyway. It is called Replaytv's patents.

    As for Comcast. They are wisely following the path others have. Open your on dans stuff to TiVo and let customers buy TiVos. Who needs attorneys?
     
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