DIRECTV HD Receiver with TiVo (Official Q2 2011 Thread)

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Mike Bertelson, Mar 16, 2011.

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  1. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

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    Yep, except DirecTV actually has independent tuners as noted. Thus DirecTV is "better" in this way as well as 90 minutes vs. 30 minutes. Only thing the Tivo version has on DirecTV is it's on full time which as Doug mentioned only matters if you really care about some random program in the 2nd buffer when you sit down. Otherwise you'll never care and the only main difference to you and me is that on DirecTV you simply hit the down arrow twice to activate while Tivo it's once.

    But this was discussed to death a few years ago when DirecTV introduced it to the DirecTV DVRs so this is a total rehash of well known facts.
     
  2. Jeremy W

    Jeremy W Hall Of Fame

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    DirecTV pushes a lot of content to the DVRs. So, my guess is that they'd like to keep the background tuner free when it's not being actively used, either by DoublePlay or a recording.
     
  3. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

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    I do believe that was the "un"official explanation is that when not in use the background tuner is used for downloading the VOD programs.

    Then again this isn't any different from the old DirecTivos that took one of the tuners in the middle of the night to channel 582 to download guide data. So you sit down the next day and find your other tuner tuned to a black screen which was channel 582. LOL
     
  4. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    Another factor with independent tuners...you can use it to jump around 4 channels rather than two.

    Down arrow changes buffers/tuners on DirecTV. Tivo has dropped the down arrow and uses previous channel now. On DirecTV, previous channel is for THAT tuner/buffer, so I can jog between two channels on either buffer or do it on one while leaving the other buffer, well, buffering. Can only do that with Tivo by punching in the number or changing the channel with the guide.

    Much easier to watch 4 football games on one DVR with the DirecTV approach as I have two buttons to control what game I am watching and I determine which buffers drop.
     
  5. Beerstalker

    Beerstalker Hall Of Fame

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    Not sure if this is really 100% on topic but I figured I would post anyway. I gues Tivo just changed thier pricing for their Premier boxes today. From now on it's $20 a month for the first box (and it sounds like it's probably going to be $15 a month for each additional box). After hearing about this I feel even more strongly that $5/month fee that the DirecTV site talked about is going to be per Tivo unit.

    http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2011-05/tivo-simplifies-pricing-on-may-19th/
     
  6. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

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    I can't imagine anyone wanting to pay more in receiver fees than programming fees. With Premier I would pay more just to use TiVo's than I would for the cost of my programming package by almost double and I have the Premier package.
     
  7. JBernardK

    JBernardK Legend

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    Not true. On a Tivo you press the "live TV" button to switch between tuners. On a given tuner, you press the enter button to switch between two channels. Of course you lose the buffer when you do this and I suspect the same it true on the DirecTV approach.
     
  8. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Two big reasons. (1) the extra buffer would eat up 90 minutes of your Storage space and (2) there needs to be time to get movies to your DVR.
     
  9. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    That did not work on my last Tivo. Maybe a version change. It confused me when it happened. Good to know it is not pervasive.
     
  10. Tallgntlmn

    Tallgntlmn Icon

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    That it was. I remember those threads vividly as I am a proponent of having the buffers always on. Wait, now if the new TiVo receiver comes out and still has to have DP started, hopefully they can make the nag screen about starting it go away really quick or not show up at all. :)
    On #2, one can always say "well the old D-TiVo did it and worked..." ;)
     
  11. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    The DIRECTV TiVo will be TiVo software. I can't imagine it will work any different than they way it does on the HR10-250.

    This would actually be incorrect .. Much different scope and generally only small amounts of programming was done this way. The issue is not that it couldn't necessarily be done this way .. It's because you may come back to the buffer .. expect it to be 90 minutes and find that there is only 5 minutes (as the usage just stopped). This is about consistency. Since 90 minutes could not be guaranteed 100% of the time, it isn't available at all (unless you are actively using it).

    So, Doubleplay provides 100% usage (no interruptions at any hour of the day for background recording) while you are actively using it.

    Doubleplay also provides you 0% usage when you are NOT actively using it but recordings can be downloaded at any time (not just @ 2 in the morning) when Doubleplay is not in use.
     
  12. Tallgntlmn

    Tallgntlmn Icon

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    I did not have the HR10-250 so not sure how that one worked. I remember on the D-TiVo I had, I hit the background tuner and was not presented with a notification. I wish we could get rid of that notification, make it shorter or not have to hit exit to get rid of it. For me, that is the one thing I really do not like about the DoublePlay implementation.

    Now that explanation about the 90 minutes, I don't think I had ever seen before. That makes sense and now I can understand better why it is how it is.

    Of course, none of this is here nor there. I am more interested in knowing that this receiver in this thread does/will exist and is not severely disabled compared to a real TiVo like the old ones were. I haven't paid a lot of attention to this thread so what I wonder (feature wise) may have already been mentioned a few times.
     
  13. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Severely disabled? Don't look for Amazon or Netflix or any other DIRECTV competitor to be available on the box .. You'll have to go standalone for that (with other limitations of course). It will have all of the features of the HR10-250 which pretty much never changed. Don't look for MRV when it comes out, but don't blame that one on DIRECTV .. 90 minute buffers? :nono:

    As I've stated a few times already, if you had an older DIRECTV TiVo (Standard Def or High Def), the new one is pretty close to the same thing as what you had many, many years ago. It will have MPEG4-HD, it will have OTA (via the AM21 add on) and it will support the new SWiM distribution. I think they added Swivel search and Kid zone (the 2008 Press release said it would) but I think that's about it for "new" features. The biggest thing that is new is that you'll be able to actually get a TiVo for DIRECTV again .. hopefully by year end, but I've about given up on predicting the "when" at that point.
     
  14. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    You assume that the licensing fee is gone. I doubt it. I think its simply all been changed..

    If we where to get to examine it, I think this is what we would see...

    Comcast will pay a licensing fee for using patented tivo capabilities. This will be a small fee.

    Comcast will probably put up monies for production of tivo hardware, since they will have it and carry it on their trucks, and also collect the hardware fees for it, based o the way I read the statement. They will be pushing it to their customers, just as much as tivo will be.

    There will be kick in from comcast for tivo marketing. (I think this was probably there before as well)

    Tivo will disable competing features on their tivos so you won't be able to choose netflix, you will be able to choose Comcast VOD... (guessing here)

    Tivo will get some of the monthly tivo fees, and comcast will get some of the monthly tivo fees as well (the ones they charge the customers)

    All of that and they will be able to roll it out in the near term, to all markets that have enough boxes in supply.

    A true restructuring of the deal to make it happen faster, and to make more money for everyone faster. It will be positioned as a premium dvr for comcast because I believe not only will it be a tivo, it will also have a larger hard drive, and other additional features that many of the DVRS used by their current subs... (this will not be the case for Directv subs, with directv it will be more of a paralleled device)

    This is something that happened over a period of time, and in no way could have come up and been put together as fast as Echostar suddenly agreeing to a settlement with Tivo. I fully suspect this started far before then, probably beginning with talks last year sometime when delays in software production continued and someone at the higher end figured maybe there was a better route to go.

    Dish absolutely is paying Tivo licensing fees. Its just they are doing it all at once, and are good till the patents run out, where as Directv and comcast are probably paying smaller licensing fees and paying them out over time... Same concept, just different ways of getting it done.

    Why you think tivo would let Directv restructure a deal and not pay licensing fees is beyond logic. Everyone is paying tivo licensing fees, even if that's not what they are calling them. And because directv also is letting tivo create its own directv box, and same with comcast (in whatever form it becomes) they are probably paying less than what Dish is basically going to end up paying...

    You're also dreaming if you think Comcast cut out that fee. Tivo isn't going to let that fee go. Heck, now they have a bankroll to sue again if needed... If there was a chance for any company to end that fee though, it would be directv, since they own replaytv.

    I suspect that direct is looking forward to seeing the tivo boxes hit, because they will make money on them... I am positive they will. Tivos will sell easily to anyone who has a directivo now, and only one box in a house. If you only have one tv in the house, the amount of advantages that the HR's have over Tivo is much slimmer, (based on the physical setup, and what I expect is also a different kind of demo that won't use nearly as many advanced features as a multi tv household) and when you factor in some people love the atrocious Tivo interface and think its far better than Directvs, its a slam dunk. I'd guess they will sell at least 50K of these babies... But I expect Comcast will sell 100's of thousands, if not millions...

    The fun part for me right now is waiting to see what hits first.. The new Tivo or the HR34.... I know which one I want.. :D
     
  15. trainman

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    Sherman...
    The SL limit isn't quite an issue for me (I have about 45 SLs); if I were going to switch to the new TiVo, it would be over the aspects of WishList functionality that I still miss from the DirecTiVo.

    But I'm actually leaning toward not switching -- especially with my Netflix streaming subscription, I don't really need better WishList searches in order to find stuff to watch.

    YouTube videos are available on the DirecTV DVRs, so I don't see any inherent reason why YouTube wouldn't be available on the new TiVo.
     
  16. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    The inherent reason is that TiVo Inc. is coding the new TiVo DVR and DIRECTV coded the HR2x series. So a feature that is available on one does not magically migrate to the other. Given the extraordinary tardiness of this product, I doubt that they're working on anything more than basic features at this point and (hopefully) are not wasting time on less-important aspects.
     
  17. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    Good point. Other aspects can be added if the base works and sells. Although too much crippling makes it less likely to sell.
     
  18. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    And releasing it 2 1/2 years after you announce it isn't going to make it "less likely to sell?"
     
  19. jacmyoung

    jacmyoung Hall Of Fame

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    Do you know why TiVo agreed to terminate the old licensing deal? Because TiVo is dying, they continue to lose subs. Even if your above assumptions are correct about the new Comcast deal, it is still not a licensing deal, by definition a license fee would be assessed on Comcast for deploying its own DVRs which may or may not contain the TiVo technologies. The new agreement is about selling TiVo's own Premiere DVRs, there cannot be a license fee by definition. If anything Comcast in theory could charge TiVo a license fee for accessing Comcast's VOD technology. I am not saying this is the case, only to explain what does a "license fee" mean.

    If TiVo wants to stop the bleeding of the DirecTiVo subs, likewise they can start by reducing or terminate the "significantly higher" licensing fee DirecTV must pay TiVo to deploy this already obsolete DVR. Because it should be clear to TiVo DirecTV isn't losing any sleep seeing the DirecTiVo subs fleeing to DirecTV's own brands.
     
  20. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    I think that ship has sailed.

    :)

    Seriously, features versus delivery dates are a constant tradeoff in any consumer (non-spec) product.
     
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