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DIRECTV HD Receiver with TiVo (Official Q3 2010 Thread)

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Stuart Sweet, Jun 24, 2010.

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  1. Jul 19, 2010 #61 of 765
    hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    I have become a believer....a believer of reality on this topic.

    1) Having met with the Tivo folks at CES this past January...only to be told that no new equipment would be presented there (this show is to show off new things coming out in the next 6 - 24 months),

    2) Having seen no credible evidence of the existence of any testing or other pre-release activities in 2010,

    3) and since Doug and Stuart said so :D

    I am now in the camp that the probability of seeing a new DirecTivo HD DVR is remotely small, and even if it surfaces some day...the passing of time would render it as a non-event.

    To make it something special, it would have to be special - much more than just a new Tivo UI. I no longer see that in the cards. The HR24 series is going to be a tough act to follow. I am now a convert to the "doubt it" camp.
     
  2. Jul 19, 2010 #62 of 765
    ATARI

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    Me either.
     
  3. Jul 19, 2010 #63 of 765
    Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    Well all I can say is they're not the first market leader to lose steam and become an also-ran in the field they helped pioneer. What's another one?

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Jul 19, 2010 #64 of 765
    Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    [​IMG]
     
  5. Jul 19, 2010 #65 of 765
    Curtis52

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    Where do you think you miscalculated?
     
  6. Jul 19, 2010 #66 of 765
    Doug Brott

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    I think the comment was more geared towards "What have you done for me lately?" than anything else. Honestly, with what little "good" they've put out recently you'd almost think TiVo was an Urban Legend.
     
  7. Jul 19, 2010 #67 of 765
    joshjr

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    I have never had a TiVo but have been waiting and waiting for this HD DVR to come out. I have grown very tired of waiting and a lack of informaiton. I now haev dounts that it will live up to any expectations I had. As long as its taking things would need to be updated a few times over just to compete with current HD DVR's D* already offers.s We shall see what happens but I for one am no longer in the cant wait boat. More like believe it when I see it.
     
  8. Jul 19, 2010 #68 of 765
    jacmyoung

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    There is no miscalculation here because folks here only look at the technical side of the business, which TiVo has failed to prove nor did they even try hard enough. The reason TiVo is still in business is largely because the investors still hope for a large payout from the lawsuit. But you cannot blame folks here for "miscalculating" on that part because they are not get-rich-quick investors, they are consumers of the actual products which TiVo has so far failed them.

    I will even go one step further to argue that, had the TX court sided with DISH back in 2008, TiVo might have been forced to refocus on the product development side a lot sooner, and we could have seen a lot more new TiVo products rolling out by now.
     
  9. Jul 20, 2010 #69 of 765
    bicker1

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    It has been interesting reading the continuing self-congratulatory litany of band-wagoneering from people seemingly trying to convince themselves that because they aren't happy with how things are, then clearly someone else did something wrong. This is not uncommon, online. Generally, folks don't care enough about realities and about business in general to integrate a comprehensive understanding of things into their contributions to the discussion.

    The important thing to remember, in this discussion, is that the vast majority of people here are not getting what they personally want from TiVo, so their comments about TiVo are colored by their personal animosity. Casual readers would be well-advised to read this thread with that in mind, understanding that they're getting basically only the "bashers" perspective.

    I think TiVo's got problems and went down the wrong path, at times, like any business that takes risks must, but the comments in this thread have been nowhere near close to the actuality.
     
  10. Jul 20, 2010 #70 of 765
    Mike Bertelson

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    Hmmm...Interesting. I’m not sure we’re reading the same thread because I haven't seen any “bashing” or "self-congratulatory litany". Although, it’s just as likely that we have different ideas of what constitutes “bashing” and "self-congratulatory litany".

    My idea is slamming someone for the comment they make rather then commenting on the subject at hand. As to "self-congratulatory litany", ok I don't think I know how that applies to any post in this thread. :grin:

    I think this thread is doing well and certainly better then the previous versions have.

    It’s and interesting subject. Will it happen? What will it have? What theories do people have?

    So far I like this thread. Some interesting discussion with no bashing of other people for their comments...as it should be. :)

    Now, who agrees/disagrees with my MRV theory? :D

    :backtotop

    Mike
     
  11. Jul 20, 2010 #71 of 765
    ATARI

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    Please enlighten us further...
     
  12. Jul 20, 2010 #72 of 765
    jacmyoung

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    Let me venture a guess that he was trying to say, the delay of the new DirecTiVo is not necessarily TiVo's own doing, some theory I had advanced at one time. But as time went on, TiVo's difficulty in rolling out their own new products began to support the view held by many here.
     
  13. Jul 20, 2010 #73 of 765
    Stuart Sweet

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    Yeah, based on the problems with the Comcast Tivo and how long that took to roll out, it seems pretty easy to place the blame back on TiVo Inc.
     
  14. Jul 20, 2010 #74 of 765
    gregjones

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    No. Actually I am disappointed at a professional level more than anything else. TiVo had the capital and market lead in order to take their lightning-in-a-jar product and refit it for mass deployment. As an expert in software design, I can say very clearly that they failed. They let their technical failure color their business objectives by releasing products with little innovation (compared to the time in development), consistently missed deadlines and lack of penetration into untapped markets. Their lack of delivery on the technical aspects has deteriorated their market position and their prospects.

    At this point they are little more than owners of rights for certain software and look-and-feel components. They are squatters on ideas they own from the past and have contributed very little since those ideas that would justify increased investment or consumer advocacy.

    At its heart, TiVo is a software company. They failed at maintaining their software in a way that met market needs. It is somewhat difficult to be a success when you fail at your primary goal. Again. And again.
     
  15. Jul 20, 2010 #75 of 765
    bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

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    Ding, I think we have the answer for his post. And that's fine, but just come out and say it and bring forward why he thinks so. I to really like the discussion so far in this thread as there really hasn't been any "bashing" but actual well thought out discussion.

    So as for a delay on DirecTV's side...well I could see them asking for a delay to put the new Tivo box on the HR24 but that's about it. AND that should in now way have slowed Tivo down. As noted their software development almost sounds like assembly language specific to every single chip or something. There should be no reason why Tivo couldn't have had it all developed and ready to go say on an HR20 and then easily port it to the HR24. But if that was the case it would have been out by now.

    And as Stuart points out, the loooooong delay and problems with the Comcast Tivo and the still not rolled out Cox Tivo box really points things to bad software design on the part of Tivo that makes it so difficult to port to other platforms.

    Which is curious since Tivo has for years wanted to become just a software developer for other platforms and the fact they still haven't gotten their code portable just doesn't make sense. And then their "solution" is Flash on the Premier? Flash? Really? Wow. And they still haven't finished it.
     
  16. Jul 20, 2010 #76 of 765
    gregjones

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    It almost comes across that they fired all of their competent developers before they knew their software was popular and the ones left could only emulate what was done before. If you cannot innovate, you get stuck selling knock-offs of your own old ideas.

    I know absolutely nobody involved in TiVo software development. But from the outside looking in, the software team was either underfunded, given poor direction or prioritized below legal work. Right now, it seems TiVo will be much more successful long-term due to their legal team and not because of any recent innovation.
     
  17. Jul 20, 2010 #77 of 765
    Doug Brott

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    Well, this is a thread about the DIRECTV TiVo .. Many people, not just those here want HD .. Can't get that with the DIRECTV TiVo .. I believe the disappointment (2 years since "We're coming back") is felt by many many people. The first thing a company needs before they can sell anything is an actual product .. That's missing here.
     
  18. Jul 20, 2010 #78 of 765
    PkDog

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    It is obvious that the only way Tivo can still come out of this with a desirable product is to provide some advantage over the existing DirecTv product. The only chance I see for that is to provide an actual HD UI. This is the one area where D* is still lagging. Beautiful HD pictures but with an SD user interface.

    To do that, Tivo would probably have to require an HR24 since the other receivers don't have the horsepower to support a higher resolution interface.

    If they did come out with an HD UI and at least all of the functionality currently supported in the D* receivers, it might be interesting. However, the chances of that happening are pretty darn small.
     
  19. Jul 20, 2010 #79 of 765
    Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 Active Member

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    I haven't been following this topic closely, but if they come to market with a unit that lags beyond the TiVo Premier/Premier XL then I will see it as a failure. It cannot be a current HRxx with two or three additional DVR features and a TiVo logo slapped on it. The newest TiVo GUI is beautiful.

    I'm not sure whose failure it would be (DirecTV or TiVo), but if it takes this long to develop something it had better be substantial.
     
  20. Jul 20, 2010 #80 of 765
    gregjones

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    Honestly, I cannot understand the fascination with an HD UI. I've seen bad UIs (once had a Scientific Atlanta HD DVR) and the current HR2x UI is not a bad UI.

    I do, however, feel that some people would buy a new DirecTiVo based solely on the TiVo guide listing. I'm not one of them, but many people detest anything but that particular view that focuses more on what's coming on a channel than what is on now across many channels.

    I guess I just see the potential issues in an HD UI. The biggest advantage would be getting more information on screen. But then you have to consider that many people have relatively small HDTVs. Designing for a 55" screen will leave a 32" screen unusable.

    Also, the HR2x got a lot of buyin from people because it looked just like their previous non-DVR receiver. So I am afraid I don't understand what would be accomplished by a HD UI beyond the whole smaller font -> more lines in the guide tradeoff. Please, enlighten me and you might have a convert.
     
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