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DIRECTV HD Receiver with TiVo (Official Q4 2010 Thread)

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Stuart Sweet, Sep 20, 2010.

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  1. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe a play by Charlie to make lemonade out of lemons, since he's already paid TiVO millions to settle the lawsuit and may have to pay millions more. By acquiring them, at least he gets something for his $$$. Not a bad idea from his vantage point, IMHO.
     
  2. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    This has nothing to do with the goodness or utility of the respective DVRs. This is all about the ongoing patent infringement actions.

    A possible rule of thumb: never trust a site that doesn't put full (and accurate) dates on and in their articles.

    It seems likely that if Echostar made a bid for TiVo that DIRECTV would also throw in to preserve their long-term non-litigation agreement. I think it unlikely that DISH Network would make a bid for TiVo as Echostar is the hardware company.
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    I'm not an attorney, but it would seem to me an agreement is an agreement. Unless there's some specific clause that says the current pact is void if there's a sale of TiVO, which I doubt, D* should be covered, sale or not, until the TiVo patents expire in a few years. I say this because if one of the reasons DirecTV re-upped was to extend the "no sue" period, why would DirecTV sign a deal that would potentially let a competitor acquire TiVO and sue them? Just my .02.
     
  4. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    I'd be very surprised if any sale of TiVo made the non-litigation portion of the agreement vanish. It's much more likely that a sale of TiVo to a direct competitor of DIRECTV would halt the collaboration portion of the agreement (though it's not necessarily the case). It would probably mean the demise of the DIRECTV TiVo even in the 11th hour.

    But who knows .. I'd think it unlikely for DISH to buy TiVo right now, but it's certainly one way to try and get something out of the litigation.
     
  5. Richierich

    Richierich Hall Of Fame

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    I agree that the Non-Litigation Part of the Ageement would still stand and I would think there would be some Legality in place to force TiVo to complete the Directivo per a Legal Agreement with Directv and TiVo.

    What Am I Missing?
     
  6. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

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    There was a link to a 10C(?) of some other SEC filing that someone posted on a previous version of this thread that stated, if I remember correctly, that the building of the new HD DirecTivo could/would be terminated if either Tivo was sold to another company or if DirecTV changed hands as well (or a certain % of it).

    The non-litigation part would certainly still be enforced. You'd have to have some pretty bad lawyers to not have that clause in there.

    So unless something has changed (or I remember incorrectly) if Dish were to buy Tivo then the new DirecTivo wouldn't happen but the no-sue clause should still be in place.
     
  7. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    The non-litigation clause is not something that automatically extends for the life of the patent -- it lasts for the term of the agreement. The current agreement struck with the HD DIRECTiVo refresh expires in February 2015. Some of TiVo's patents will last into 2029 or later.

    Whether or not a buyer extends the agreement is an issue.
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    I thought you were suggesting D* should make a bid for TiVO in order to preserve the current agreement.

    Didn't know the patents extended past it. At any rate, DirecTV holds some Sonic Blue (Replay) patent cards as well, if things ever got ugly in the future.
     
  9. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    I wouldn't envision Charlie initiating a lawsuit. He mostly just defends his company and their often set of the pants practices. I wouldn't understand why he would buy Tivo to end a series of lawsuits just to open up a new batch of them. The courts have not been kind to Charlie.
     
  10. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    The courts can't reverse their decisions based on who acquires the rights to the technology. TiVo already has and will continue to go after other "infringers". The existing agreement may or may not paint a target on DIRECTV's back, but it would certainly give one pause when contemplating why they would enter in to such an agreement if they weren't concerned about infringement.

    I would expect that Charlie would not overlook an opportunity like that unless he can make it back through licensing agreements or, better yet, OEM equipment deals where everybody wins. He has already paid dearly for the privilege.

    This said, I wholeheartedly acknowledge that logic and reason don't always prevail (nor necessarily play a major role) in business or legal matters.
     
  11. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    DIRECTV will extend that to 2018 .. It's also already in the contract so while technically it may end in 2015 .. it doesn't really when you count on the extension.

    Additionally, It is likely the most damaging Patents expire in 2018 (hence the timing of the contract) and that any Patents beyond that are already covered by DIRECTVs own Patents as well.

    In other words, any innuendo suggesting that DIRECTV & TiVo will be at odds over Patents is simply pointing people in the wrong direction. The only thing that would make this a possibility would be outright wrongdoing by either DIRECTV or TiVo and while that may happen .. most companies are very careful to operate within the law.

    DIRECTV (and it's customers) have NOTHING to worry about here regardless of whether the new DIRECTV TiVo makes it to the market or not.

    Also, which TiVo Patents expire in 2029? That would mean TiVo just filed a new Patent last year and I sure as heck don't remember TiVo being so innovative in the recent past.
     
  12. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Who does it "give pause" to? It took me about 1 nanosecond to figure out why they made the agreement. They adopted the bird in the hand philosophy .. "Pay to play" and .. Oh yeah, if those TiVotees come back to DIRECTV because of a new DIRECTV device. Well, DIRECTV will take their money, too in programming fees. It was a win-win other than having to fork over some cash (which DISH has probably spent that much in Lawyers fees by now).

    DIRECTV's ace in the hole was the Replay Patents. It wasn't rock-solid though as the most damaging (the DVR one) Patent for Replay was filed exactly 1 week later than that of TiVo. But, there was a solid agreement of non-litigation between Replay and TiVo that almost certainly solidified the arrangement from DIRECTV's perspective.

    In other words, TiVo may be angry about this fact, but DIRECTV played a smart enough defense and dished out just enough cash to put itself in a safe location. We simply won't see between DIRECTV & TiVo what is happening between DISH & TiVo. Not only is there NOT a target on DIRECTV's back, they're wearing the "don't hit" jersey that QBs wear in practice.
     
  13. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Yup...some good forethought on their part, and preventive medicine for potential legal illnesses that could have cropped up. They stayed healthy taking that early approach.
     
  14. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    Huh? Who says Tivo would go after anybody when it is no longer a means to survival? If Tivo is bought up by someone who buys them to buy off a court case, in essence, they will not need court decisions to get money to survive. When survival is not part of the equation, people make different decisions.

    Besides, Tivo v. DirecTV is a whole different ballgame than Tivo v. Dish. DirecTV owns a lot of patents via Replay and Tivo and DirecTV decided to not go after each other to avoid court costs and delays for minimal gain (if any).

    Charlie buys Tivo and goes after DirecTV, he will find that the sledding is tough because of the Replay patents.

    Hence, "The courts have not been kind to Charlie." They would not be again.

    Of course, Charlie can be his usual blustery self who thinks the world works the way he wants it to rather than the way it actually does.
     
  15. CuriousMark

    CuriousMark Icon

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    TiVo has had two or three patents issued in the last year. One is an extension of the Time Warping patent and I forget what the other or others were about. The time warping extension patent has been in process for years, so it does not represent recent innovation, but other patents are newer and show that while the pace of their innovation has fallen it has not stopped. This fits with my belief that Rogers' decisions to be profitable gutted engineering there and that recovery is and will be slow.
     
  16. litzdog911

    litzdog911 Well-Known Member

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    I think the bigger issue is whether or not Tivo will still be in business in 2015.
     
  17. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    They won't.
     
  18. ejjames

    ejjames Icon

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    The "tivo" brand will no doubt survive. The company's epitaph has been written countless times in the past decade, yet they still manage to survive.
     
  19. Richierich

    Richierich Hall Of Fame

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    Bingo!!! You hit the nail on the head. With everyone developing their own version of TiVo like DVRs and other devices TiVo's need to exist dramatically diminishes.

    It was a Great Idea and a Novel Idea with Great Functionality when it first came out but I am so Happy with my 7 Directv DVRs and the fact that they have added a lot of functionality (even though they need to clean up their act a bit before developing new stuff) I don't even think anymore about the Directivo coming out and I Was a TIVOHOLIC at one time and was one of the First Persons on tivocommunity.com to buy and activate an HR10-250.

    That says alot about Directv's Development of their DVR. They have made me quit thinking about or wanting a new Directivo.
     
  20. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Keeping in mind that they are primarily a software company...I would guess that before they would ever disappear...someone would acquire the rights to the software....not that it has tremendous value, but the patents and intellectual property itself may be worth such an acquisition.

    Unless they reinvent the wheel somehow...they are pretty much just another also-ran company out there.
     
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