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DirecTV National HD Listing/Maps Discussion Thread (Technical - Not Anticipation)

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Programming' started by Sixto, May 29, 2012.

  1. RAD

    RAD Well-Known Member

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    Dripping...
    For spot beams only or CONUS also? I thought they tried to do something with CONUS back before D10 went up and it didn't pan out.
     
  2. maartena

    maartena Hall Of Fame

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    I don't know any specific details.... but I do know that bandwidth exists on e.g. Galaxy and AMC (not to be confused with the tv channel) satellites, both of which already operate satellites in the 99 and 103 region.

    Here's a list... but it is somewhat out of date, that is, it is being kept up manually as best as it can be kept up, so sometimes information isn't always the latest:

    http://www.lyngsat.com/america.html
     
  3. maartena

    maartena Hall Of Fame

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    If they really lose a LOT of spotbeams, they may have to revert to opening up national DNS feeds for everyone. We're really talking about a worst case scenario though, I am sure they have some plan in mind.
     
  4. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    My guess would be, for the immediate anyhow, if say D10 were to completely bite the dust a lot of Cinema HD on D11 and 12 and maybe "Push Content" on D12 would have to be taken down to make room for CONUS beam traffic from D10 as well as more 6 channels per transponder loading.

    And of course D12's spotbeams would completely take over for D10's. Scenarios for other total satellite failures would probably be similar I'd imagine with the removal of a lot of PPV/Push programming and more 6/tp. loading, along with the possible repositioning of satellites from 99 over to 103 or vice-versa.
     
  5. RAD

    RAD Well-Known Member

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    I know there are other sats at 99 and 103, but I don't see where there is Ka band payload on them. I'm probably wrong but I didn't think Ka was that common up there.
     
  6. LameLefty

    LameLefty I used to be a rocket scientist

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    It's not, since Directv holds the only direct-to-home Ka licenses for those slots. Ergo, if D10 has another significant failure and becomes unusable, there WILL be an impact to Directv's daily operations for many months.

    In fact, the announced reason that D14 is being expedited and that D15 has already been announced is because D10's expected operational lifetime is reduced. D10's various problems is probably also the reason Directv has gone with SS/L for their next batch of satellites.
     
  7. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    SS/L for D14, the french Astrium Satellites for D15 ... ;)

    http://www.spacenews.com/satellite_telecom/111104-astrium-build-directv15.html
     
  8. LameLefty

    LameLefty I used to be a rocket scientist

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    Yeah, I remember that now; I've read that article before. I was thinking of the batch that SS/L is building (D14 and those two others being built for Ku replacement service to be operated by Intelsat and leased to Directv).
     
  9. RAD

    RAD Well-Known Member

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    That link says the two leased satellites are for DIRECTVLA:

     
  10. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    You know, I actually thought you might have been thinking about that by mentioning "SS/L" as the builder for the next "batch of satellites." But since those two, specifically "IntelSat 30 and 31," Ku band payloads are destined for DIRECTV LA service;

    http://www.intelsat.com/press/news-releases/2011/20110908-1.asp

    I wasn't sure because when most refer to "DIRECTV's satellites" they usually mean those servicing DIRECTV USA at 99-119 degrees.
     
  11. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    They likely in the event of a failure could also completely fill the space ways with spot beams and then use some of the bandwidth on D11 and d 12 converted from spotbeam bandwidth and use it on some of the backup spare conus transponders to also add additional channels. Plus who knows what all they could do to possibly free up some space at 1:01 and could put some of the HD channels on there if there were a few that had to be done. Plus they could also leave some channels and SD only for a while. Kick channels like MTV to sd only for a while.

    And I'm sure there's a lot more options that they have that we don't even know about.
     
  12. georule

    georule Hall Of Fame

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    I think I'm with Sixto in the 20-25 range on new capacity from the new encoders as budgetary considerations allow them to be rolled out. There are some indications that channel mix per transponder could play a part, so I certainly would lean a little on the conservative side.

    Still, that ought to be plenty to keep the natives from becoming overly restless until D14 launches, as long as D10 holds together.

    Of course, there's the old contract bug-a-boo thing too, as we're seeing with the (hopefully short) ION delay.

    I'm still a proponent of the idea that they've got a few "in their pocket", but who knows which.

    The fact that Verizon launched BBCA HD the day after D* did certainly suggests there was some late movement there motivated by BBCA wanting to support "Copper" launch.
     
  13. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    D10 isn't "old" per se but it is operating on one kidney (and maybe one lung) so it can't withstand any more major failures.
     
  14. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    They did try, and the phased array didn't work out well in very wide coverage. There were posts of missing locals between two areas that has the same local coverage.
     
  15. Carl Spock

    Carl Spock Superfly

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    I had no idea of the poor health of D10 before this discussion.
     
  16. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    It's on it's backup propulsion system after the primary one failed, and I'm not aware if anyone really knows how well the "amelioration" procedure DIRECTV tried a while ago to correct a partial failure to D10's spotbeam array that's plagued it since launch has worked out.

    But whether any of this equates to the analogy of multiple vital organ failures failures of a human being or someone as harsh contends is something else entirely.
     
  17. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    In other words, that really may be a harsh analogy....:nono2:
     
  18. Carl Spock

    Carl Spock Superfly

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    I've got to tell you a story on me.

    I grew up in La Canada Flintridge, California, which is right next to JPL, from where most satellites which leave Earth's orbit are controlled. Many are built there, too, including the new Mars Science Laboratory. My high school was 1/4 of a mile away from JPL. It still is the local industry.

    When I was in junior high, the Surveyor craft, America's first soft lander on the Moon, was happening. My older, high school age sister was going out with the son of Surveyor's project manager, Howard Haglund. Because of that, I got all the press releases and high res photos from those missions (I sure wish I still had those packets).

    For the transit from the Earth to the Moon, Surveyor relied on a low gain antenna for communication. There were two on each craft in case one didn't deploy or just stopped working. That happened during one of the early Surveyor missions. Boy, was I concerned! They had to rely on only the backup antenna! The scientists at JPL weren't worried because that's why they had the second antenna. But my concern got back to Howard Haglund and I was told the mission team had a good laugh at my thirteen year old expense.

    I understand D10 is on its backup propulsion system. That's why there is redundancy. I'm sure D10 also has redundancy in transponders and other key systems. Do you know what happens to the Hubble Telescope if all the gyros but one fail? Nothing. It works just fine.

    But I'm still as worried as when I was 13.

    - - - - - - - - - - - -

    One more gratuitous, off-topic, ancient space history Surveyor story:

    Surveyor 1 was wildly successful. It worked beyond anybody's expectations, sending back tons of pictures of the surface of the Moon after landing. It worked so well that the mission decided to try to revive the craft after two weeks of lunar night. This concept had never come up in the mission planning as nobody thought Surveyor 1 would last this long.

    Before night came and JPL still had electricity to control the craft, there was a huge debate among the engineers and scientists as to what was the best position to leave the solar panels, mirrors and camera. What would happen when the Sun first struck them after two weeks of -275° F temperatures? The various factions fought over different angles and positions without conclusion. They finally took the matter to the boss, Howard Haglund, for his decision.

    After hearing all sides out, Mr. Haglund said, "You're thinking like Earth men. Start thinking like Moon men. How long is sunrise during a lunar day?"

    Maybe two or three Earth days was the consensus.

    "So it will take that long for the temperature to swing up to the 250° F of a lunar day. Leave the panels and mirrors in any position you want. It won't make any difference."

    He was right. Surveyor 1 was revived without any problems.
     
  19. lwilli201

    lwilli201 Hall Of Fame

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    Enjoyed your story. Isn't it wonderful how some common sense can trump an imagined engineering or scientific problem.
     
  20. georule

    georule Hall Of Fame

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    You'd rather have a redundant system "in reserve" than not have one, but I'd agree that generally the real fretting is when your system is forced to switch to that redundant system and the immediate period following. Will that redundant system really stand up and do what you'd hoped it would? D10 has passed that test.
     

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