1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Directv Press Release DVB-2

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Curtis0620, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. Curtis0620

    Curtis0620 Hall Of Fame

    1,497
    24
    Apr 22, 2002
  2. Johnnie5000

    Johnnie5000 Godfather

    452
    0
    Mar 26, 2008
    So what does all of that mean in english?
     
  3. bobnielsen

    bobnielsen Éminence grise

    8,473
    92
    Jun 29, 2006
    Bainbridge...
    My take is that there appear to be several patents on DVB-S2 technology and the licensing is being combined so that they are all covered.
     
  4. Ken S

    Ken S RIP

    6,201
    0
    Feb 12, 2007
    It means they've taken a bunch of related technologies from several companies and bundled them into an easy to "eat" license ("Happy Meal"). They are hoping others that now know the licenses are available and at what the costs are will adopt the technology and pay the fees. Without offers like this its risky for a company to adopt a given technology without first entering extensive license negotiations with multiple companies.

    The companies that created this initiative have figured out some split of the license fees.

    It also tends to serve as notice to those that may be using the technology without a license that DTV holds those patents and what they would claim as damages.
     
  5. Scott in FL

    Scott in FL Godfather

    427
    0
    Mar 18, 2008
    DVB-S2 is something you don't hear much about in this forum, and I applaud DirecTV for taking the leap and adopting it (the "other" company isn't using it). The article mentioned a 30% performance improvement over DVB-S, and this is true. What it means to us is more HD channels and less rain fade at Ka band. DVB-S2 allows MPEG-4 compression for HD and pilots to recover the signal during high noise conditions (rain fade).

    So far DirecTV is using DVB-S2 for some of the locals. The problem with DVB-S2 is it's not compatible with the older DVB-S receivers, so they have to replace all of the older receivers before they can implement DVB-S2 across the board. This is the main reason Dish has so far chosen to not use DVB-S2.
     
  6. tkrandall

    tkrandall Hall Of Fame

    1,807
    1
    Oct 3, 2003
    But why would Dish not use it on their newest MPEG-4 receivers? Their HD is or soon will be exclusively MPEG-4, and their Eastern Arc service is MPEG-4 only, so that would seem to be the perfect time to go with it.

    I had moments of rain rade on both SD and HD local channel feeds last night during the Olympic volleyball and closing ceremony, storms in the metro Atlanta area had me reverting to OTA at times.
     
  7. Scott in FL

    Scott in FL Godfather

    427
    0
    Mar 18, 2008
    Don't know. When I was at the NAB show in April I walked over to the Echostar booth and asked if Dish had any plans to implement DVB-S2. The person I spoke to said no, because it was too expensive to change out the existing receivers.

    The pilots used with DVB-S2 can not eliminate rain fade, only help. Ka-Band is more susceptible to rain fade than Ku-Band, so the DVB-S2 pilots help keep Ka-Band on par with Ku. But they can't eliminate it completely.
     
  8. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    21,331
    247
    Nov 15, 2005
    As this is a press release, we can quote the whole release
    Thanks Curtis0620!

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  9. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    21,331
    247
    Nov 15, 2005
    Well said and described.

    Thanks,
    Tom
     
  10. tvjay

    tvjay Godfather

    293
    0
    Sep 26, 2007
    You say that like its a bad thing.......OTA-HD, unless taken directly from the station via fiber which they are not doing at very many places, will be better than DirecTV if received by a good antenna. I am not trying to starting a debate, just stating something that as a local TV engineer makes me upset.
     
  11. techrep

    techrep Hall Of Fame

    1,056
    0
    Sep 15, 2007
    It's not a bad thing, just a convenience thing. :)
     
  12. tkrandall

    tkrandall Hall Of Fame

    1,807
    1
    Oct 3, 2003

    No, not bad at all. Reverting was a bad choice of words.

    I usually watch the OTA feeds especially whenever I am merely watching live tv. During the Olympics I was using the MPEG-4 feed from DirecTV a lot because I was doing so much recording of stuff.
     
  13. dduitsman

    dduitsman Legend

    188
    1
    Dec 8, 2007
    Scott and/or others,

    What are pilots in this context?

    Thanks,
    Dave
     
  14. Scott in FL

    Scott in FL Godfather

    427
    0
    Mar 18, 2008
    Pilots, or more correctly pilot symbols, consist of additional information which the receiver uses to help lock onto the carrier. That's a very simplified description.

    The pilots are inserted into the DVB-S2 frame structure along with the data (video and audio information).

    DVB-S2 allows the use of higher order modulation compared to DVB-S which allowed only QPSK. These higher order modulations (8PSK, 16APSK and 32APSK) require LNBs with high stability and low phase noise. In short, DVB-S2 can not get away with the cheaper LNBs now used by DVB-S. These pilot symbols give the receiver something to lock onto.

    Another example is during rain fade when the C/N drops (signal falls into the noise). The pilots help the receiver hang in there a bit longer before losing lock.
     
  15. bobnielsen

    bobnielsen Éminence grise

    8,473
    92
    Jun 29, 2006
    Bainbridge...
    Possibly forward error correction?
     
  16. Scott in FL

    Scott in FL Godfather

    427
    0
    Mar 18, 2008
    No, nothing to do with FEC. Just to do with helping the demod lock. 73, K7KQ
     
  17. Scott in FL

    Scott in FL Godfather

    427
    0
    Mar 18, 2008
  18. Ernie

    Ernie AllStar

    66
    0
    Sep 25, 2007
    This is most likely marketing politics. The phrase "offered at reasonable and non-discriminatory terms" is generally necessary for private intellectual property to become part of an ITU Recommendation. DVB-S2 is now an ETSI (The European Telecommunications Standards Institute) standard. By making it an ITU Recommentation, the owners of the DVB-S2 intellectual property will make more money in the end.

    Ernie
     
  19. CKNAV

    CKNAV Godfather

    325
    0
    Dec 26, 2005
    D* is already using DVB-S2 for MPEG4 HD, except they use QPSK because KA band has much lower noise threshold than KU. E* can switch to DVB-S2 at any time. Their video coding is exactly like DVB-S2, but they use 8PSK with FEC Turbo Coding which gives them 10% bandwith gain over FEC Trellis coding used with DVB-S2.
     
  20. tkrandall

    tkrandall Hall Of Fame

    1,807
    1
    Oct 3, 2003
    So E* is using 8PSK on the MPEG-4 offerings via Ku, whereas D* is using QPSK on their Ka channels?

    This maybe explains how E* is able to squeeze all their SD and HD programming onto the new MPEG-4 only Eastern Arc constallation of satellites?
     

Share This Page