I asked DIRECTV about the H21/HR21 and OTA issue as it is such a very hot topic here. Many of us very much value our OTA connections, many of you have made excellent points as to why, I too enjoy my OTA regularly and often.
So I pass on this statement from DIRECTV regarding OTA: "We will have a solution."
So let us steer the conversation to what and when that solution might be.
<moderator hat on> I'll leave this thread stickied for just a few days. We'll be closing the existing threads that purely talk about "There is no OTA", and invite everyone to discuss here.
That said, threads about specific issues people are having will be left open for discussion. If we've closed a thread in mistake, please PM any of the moderators. Thanks.
<moderator hat off>
...As far as a peeing contest goes, if those who persist in telling the pro-OTA contingent why they don't really need it would desist, maybe we could get the OTA'ers to wait patiently for D* to deliver on their promise.
Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen anyone telling anyone else that they don't need OTA.
The point that I've tried to make (and many others to no avail) is that, from D* perspective, the ones who need it are very small in relation to the one's that don't.
Therefore, they made a business decision to eliminate OTA as a default - and save money. Maybe timing was bad but that is the fact.
Everytime we try to make this point - the OTA crowd jumps up and down and tells us that we are full of bunk, are against them, and are telling them what they should want/need. But that is not the case. At least not my intention nor have I picked it up from any of the mods or anyone else.
You want a good chuckle (just to break the ice a bit here). I wrote D* wanting a Hr20-100 or -700 to replace the HR21 they gave me and after about 12 messages back and forth just to see how far they would go to help a customer, this was one of the responses I got:
D* originally provided OTA to compete with cable which usually provided all the local channels. Just because D* added most of the locals in SD doesn't change the fact that if anyone wants all the local DT channels they have to have OTA. Why can't you accept that everyone is not happy with limited local HD? What's wrong with wanting to continue with what we have become accustomed?
Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen anyone telling anyone else that they don't need OTA.
The point that I've tried to make (and many others to no avail) is that, from D* perspective, the ones who need it are very small in relation to the one's that don't.
Therefore, they made a business decision to eliminate OTA as a default - and save money. Maybe timing was bad but that is the fact.
Everytime we try to make this point - the OTA crowd jumps up and down and tells us that we are full of bunk, are against them, and are telling them what they should want/need. But that is not the case. At least not my intention nor have I picked it up from any of the mods or anyone else.
I won't dispute your intentions. If you haven't picked up the rationalizations for not keeping OTA that have nothing to do with "business" that have been put forth, then you just missed them....I mean you really missed them. I listed some of them in some of my earlier posts. I didn't just imagine them. There have been many threads and only a few of them centered on the "business" issue.
Further, we have no idea what D* did or didn't decide...they haven't made any statement. Lots of people are trying to speak for D*, with no authority to do so.
Interestingly, if it's such a simple cut and dried business decision, why oh why do we have the retreat to "There will be a solution". First it was denial, then it was, you don't need it, then it was, "there will be a solution". D* blew it. They should have said (if it were really their intention all along) the following: "We are decreasing our emphasis on OTA with some of our base model receivers. If you have need of OTA, we currently have one model that is in short supply and are working on a longer term solution for the HR21 series."
D* has shown ZERO commitment to current customers who want/need OTA. They could provide a choice. They have chosen not to do so. They promise something for the future and that is good.
All they have to do is communicate their intentions. All they need do is give consumers the choice. They are getting there, but they are hopelessly incompetent at communicating same, with no company statement, just one person who got permission to say something to the dbstalk community. It's better than nothing, but it makes D* look like a chump shop when it comes to communication with their customers.
The fact is, this whole business has been badly mishandled. The CSRs give out bad info, people here speculate and jump to conclusions, and then when one person speaks authoritatively on "there will be a solution", it degenerates into the same old crap. That was my point.
How does this go? Can't we all just get along? NO! Never have, never will. Good stimulating disagreement is good. A good disagreement clears the air and gets all view points out there, just as long as you agree with me in the end.
One of these days something a CSR either writes or says is going to get D* sued. Think about the HDNet suit where the CSR allegedly says "the HD Extra pak only has channels nobody watches anyway".
As much as I dislike overseas tech support, I can't see an Indian CSR coming up with half the stuff US CSR's do.
Dear Mr. Ed,
<clipped usual D* CSR drivel>
Also, the two HD DVR's that you mentioned have the OTA jack on them, but they are not available for use. This option was discarded when the new MPEG-4 HD channels came out. If you would like a further explanation, please call the number above. I'm sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.
Oh well unless they come up with a solution looks like I be going without a DVR this Christmas. CBS AND FOX both LIN so I really think I am out of luck.
...The point that I've tried to make (and many others to no avail) is that, from D* perspective, the ones who need it are very small in relation to the one's that don't...
I know I'm late to the party and a newbie here--and I am in no way singling out ebr, but with all due respect, where are the independently verifiable facts to back this statement up? Is it just "the fact" that since DirecTV did it, it must be true? Seems rationalized and circular to me.
This thread is really getting huge! If Directv really wants to put this issue to rest all they need to do is let people know what kind of OTA solution they are coming with and an aprox time for it's release.
I know I'm late to the party and a newbie here--and I am in no way singling out ebr, but with all due respect, where are the independently verifiable facts to back this statement up? Is it just "the fact" that since DirecTV did it, it must be true? Seems rationalized and circular to me.
I believe this to be the best solution.......Lots of ranting going on. I would be also, but its not going to help. as of last Wed, since I lost my hr 20, No LiL in my DMA SD or HD. Both of my TV's have no ASTC tuner. Therefore no networks which was about 80 percent of what was watch. I though my wife would be mad, but she has been watching the spanish soaps all night, while my TV viewing has been limited. Directv has sounded sympathetic to my pleas, but all the CSR's seem to be powerless under their current directives that they cant dictate what gets sent out. My options, are get a new tv, buy a asct tuner (still no recordings though) or wait to see if Directv has a solution quick. Otherwise no superbowl, etc, etc, etc. You can only see the humor in it at this point
All I know is as of right now it's kind of hard to recommend to someone in Austin market to go with D*. If D* has a process in place to say a HR20 is required it would be different but with the you get what's on the truck is not acceptable when our NBC affiliate is not on HD LIL service.
Hello all! I am a newbie here but have read a geat deal of helpful info here. I tried to have D* installed on 10/31 but the tech showed up with the HR21 when I had specifically noted on my work order that I was using OTA. He advised that his warehouse had no HR20s. After doing some legwork, I was able to speak with the warehouse manager and he advised he had no control over what receivers he was sent. He was not sure if he would ever get any HR20s again. He also advised that he received new shipments on Mondays and that I was welcome to call and ask for him so he could tell me if he received any HR20s. As luck would have it, I called again on 11/13 and the warehouse manager advised he received 2 pallets of HR20s on 11/12. I then scheduled another install for 11/17.
It appears that the HR20 has survived the rollout of the HR21.
Hello all! I am a newbie here but have read a geat deal of helpful info here. I tried to have D* installed on 10/31 but the tech showed up with the HR21 when I had specifically noted on my work order that I was using OTA. He advised that his warehouse had no HR20s. After doing some legwork, I was able to speak with the warehouse manager and he advised he had no control over what receivers he was sent. He was not sure if he would ever get any HR20s again. He also advised that he received new shipments on Mondays and that I was welcome to call and ask for him so he could tell me if he received any HR20s. As luck would have it, I called again on 11/13 and the warehouse manager advised he received 2 pallets of HR20s on 11/12. I then scheduled another install for 11/17.
It appears that the HR20 has survived the rollout of the HR21.
that seems off topic. I don't know why DirecTV can't manufacture X number of HR20's to keep around and then sell them for $100 more on their website. Ok, we'll ***** and moan about the extra $100, but then for the people that WANT them, can get them.
I also wonder about the HR10-250 "upgrades" to a DVR without OTA. Wonder how the people using the OTA that then lose "locals HD" feel about that.
It's a bad example. He had to perform extra legwork on his own to get it. Doesn't sound like "support" to me. Sounds like it WAS supported, but the support has been dropped. It will be supported again in the future, but not right now.
Why didn't DirecTV fix the ordering system first? They really didn't think anyone would miss the ability to record local channels? The HR21 makes sense as long as I can still easily get the HR20. And I shouldn't have to call around, ask to speak to managers, and ask various places if they really have it or not. If you're going to make a new product that might not work well in certain markets, then fix your ordering system BEFORE you rollout the new product. Especially just before the holiday shopping season, when people may be buying their first HDTV and may want to upgrade their DirecTV service to HD.
I hope the HR21 solution isn't a USB external tuner, those things are unreliable and the good ones cost a lot of money. They announced that they'll have a solution -- they didn't say if it was a GOOD solution.
But I don't think it's a dongle of any kind. They'll just launch more satellites and add more DMAs to the satellites. No subchannels, PBS, or minor networks until the FCC gets involved.
Another newbie chiming in. I got the word that my HR10 would not support the new HD channels. "You need to upgrade to an HR21". The keyword being 'upgrade'. I agree to pay the cost of the upgrade, discounted after I whined alot, because I wanted the extra HD. Who doesn't? The installer shows up and says the new box has no OTA connection. He guesses I'll have to hook the antenna up directly to the TV. Well, that's all well and good, but now I can't record OTA in HD. What's the sense? The big mistake by D* is not advising customers that the upgrade has a possible downside. Now I wait to see what the solution is as well.
Another newbie chiming in. I got the word that my H10 would not support the new HD channels. "You need to upgrade to an H21". The keyword being 'upgrade'. I agree to pay the cost of the upgrade, discounted after I whined alot, because I wanted the extra HD. Who doesn't? The installer shows up and says the new box has no OTA connection. He guesses I'll have to hook the antenna up directly to the TV. Well, that's all well and good, but now I can't record OTA in HD. What's the sense? The big mistake by D* is not advising customers that the upgrade has a possible downside. Now I wait to see what the solution is as well.
I guess you are referring to the HR10, not the H10... and the HR20, not the H20
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