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DIRECTV Re: OTA: "We Will Have a Dual Tuner Solution"

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Tom Robertson, Oct 28, 2007.

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  1. Dec 7, 2007 #801 of 1344

    joed32 Hall Of Fame

    Jul 27, 2006
    If you have had Premier for awhile you are "grandfathered" and the DVR fee is free. If you order it now it is not included.
  2. Dec 7, 2007 #802 of 1344

    joed32 Hall Of Fame

    Jul 27, 2006
    I hope so too!
  3. Dec 7, 2007 #803 of 1344

    DanM Cool Member

    Jan 13, 2003
    Ahh, damn they nickel and dime you don't they? Yeah, I guess I would be grandfathered in, I've had this for a few years now. I just pay for the additional receivers.

    So, any idea if the HR10 can record OTA HD without the HD pack? I guess I could get one and try it out. :)
  4. Dec 7, 2007 #804 of 1344
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

    Nov 15, 2005
    HR10-250 can record without the HD-Access.. .but you need DVR Services though.
  5. Dec 7, 2007 #805 of 1344

    Maruuk Hall Of Fame

    Dec 4, 2007
    Just to reiterate my earlier post which quoted DTV directly:

    DTV has officially apologized for their shortsightedness with the HR21 and has a third-party company developing post haste an external USB tuner scheduled for "early '08" release.

    So even DTV admits they screwed up, that's no longer on the table as an issue anymore. Unless you want to argue ad infinitum with DTV that they DIDN'T screw up! 8^>

    There's no argument anymore. They blew it. We know it, they admit it. Now if there was just a way to sub a remote in for the 21 that had a dedicated slo-mo button on it...
  6. Dec 7, 2007 #806 of 1344

    loudo Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2005
    Central Maine
    I don't believe you need it. The HD pack only opens up the satellite HD channels, the OTA ones are not from the satellites, and are receivable on a non activated unit. I have an HR10-250 now I occasionally use for an OTA tuner, but don't currently have it activated, so I can't test it to let you know for sure.
  7. Dec 7, 2007 #807 of 1344

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

    Jun 14, 2003
    Salem, OR
    Your previous post made reference to a post you saw on an unnamed website. It contained no quotes (direct nor indirect) and named no third party manufacturer of tuner dongles.

    I understand your disbelief of the abject stupidity that brought DIRECTV to create such a situation, but you can't be serious about trying to support your case with inaccurate and unverifiable information.
  8. Dec 7, 2007 #808 of 1344
    Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    Nov 15, 2005
    I believe these statements to be gross mischaracterizations of what happened. Before I was able to start this thread in October, I was aware work was underway. I can't say how long, nor what efforts were underway. I will say there was not a "panic", a feeling of "Screwed up", or anything along those lines. Nor a "post haste" development effort.

    My guess is they had to get the HR21 stabilized as a platform, up to the recent software feature set, then the OTA solution would be along in due course.

    You are welcome to hold to your opinions, as is everyone else, of course. I believe they are somewhat incorrect in how they represent what probably happened.

    Happy Holidays!
  9. Dec 7, 2007 #809 of 1344

    JBernardK Legend

    Aug 16, 2006
    I thought Directv now required any HD cabable reciever to have the HD Access package whether you wanted it or not. Is that true? I know you can't remove it from your package via the web site.

    I have always found it interesting that cable, started as an analog service, charges extra for digital service (sometimes per outlet). Directv, started as a digital satellite SD service does not charge extra for digital, but charger extra for HD and locals. Verizon FIOS, which started as a digital HD service does not charge extra for anything.
  10. Dec 7, 2007 #810 of 1344
    General Custer

    General Custer AllStar

    Nov 5, 2007
    This just helps those who argue for a class action type law suit since some HD-DVRs come with one feature set and others do not. They are substituting 2 differents versions of equipment ordered under the same brand name- HD Plus DVR. They especially will get into trouble when someone with an HD DVR (HR20 needing OTA) calls for a replacement and is sent an HD DVR (HR21) and feels slighted. This is going to happen as you say and eventually someone is going to call a lawyer. There is always someone who does. Directv should cover their ass and sort out the inventroy or rename the HR21 to avoid this. A jury of Joe six packs will clearly see that the 2 models have the same name but different features. All they have to know is there is one less input jack on the back of the box to decide its not the same.

    If directv can keep track of inventory with regards to stand def receiver, standard def dvr, hd receiver and hd DVR, they should be able to keep track of all of these plus or minus OTA capability.

    As an aside, if legislation ever goes into effect that they have to provide ALL local HD programming or sub-channels , then you'll see how fast they re-integrate OTA back into their boxes. HD is sort of an add on right now. Must carry invloves sd local programming. When everyone goes digital and the analogs are shut off, there could be a push for must carry HD specifically.
  11. Dec 7, 2007 #811 of 1344

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

    Nov 15, 2005
    Seattle, WA
    Why? Nothing says digital has to be HD. We've been through that debate several times already.

    As to OTA, I expect there to be an OTA solution for the HR21 before Feb 2009. I have no specific knowledge other than what has been posted right here on DBSTalk.com to substantiate that, it is just my expectation.

    As to lawyers and litigation. the latter exists to make the former rich. Very little benefit comes to anyone else in most cases.

  12. Dec 7, 2007 #812 of 1344
    General Custer

    General Custer AllStar

    Nov 5, 2007
    Never said digital=HD.

    All I am saying is that the law could change because the only OTA viwers will be digital OTA viewers. Now HD and digital OTA are a small fraction of the viewing public.Broadcasters have protectin for the vast majority of their business analog OTA signals. When the switch is made, the only OTA viewers will be those watching digital broadcasts. There may be a push by the broadcasters to mandate carriage of all stations and all subchannels. These broadcasters could then ask for the a must carry for hd feeds as well.

    For example if that were to happen, here in NY Directv would have to pony up and carry My TV 9 HD and the CW HD which they don't as well as the channel 4, 5 and 7 subchannels to name a few. If they were sending out all HR20s it wouldnt be a problem.

    I also wasn't saying that I wanted a law suit. The lawyers take home most of the booty anyway.

    What I was saying is that they are setting themselves up for one, right or wrong.
  13. Dec 7, 2007 #813 of 1344

    Maruuk Hall Of Fame

    Dec 4, 2007
    And what pray tell validates anything you guys are saying??? You DTV lickspittles are all chatbots for all I can tell. Software-generated corporate talking points generators. That's pretty funny--expecting everything on the net to be "validated"! It is to laugh.

    Believe what you want. I quoted DTV's statement directly in the post earlier in this thread. Not my words. Call em yourself, knock yerself out.

    In the meantime, I have great non-recordable OTA HD using the DIY Terk clip-on antenna system I referenced earlier. Anybody needs an update on that, let me know. Of course, the info can't be VALIDATED! hehehehe

    You nattering nabobs of negativism slay me. 8^>
  14. Dec 7, 2007 #814 of 1344
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

    Nov 15, 2005
    All we are asking for is a linkable source for your quote from DirecTV...
    That's it.

    If you are basing it off a phone conversation with a CSR... they say so.

    And asking for validation to a rumor... especially on something like this... yes, that is pretty much the norm.
  15. Dec 7, 2007 #815 of 1344

    adam1115 Godfather

    Dec 16, 2003
    Ripped it out of the design, replaced the HR20 sticker with an HR21 sticker, make 30 cents more per DVR.

    Why should I bend over backwards to buy a discontinued model and commit to 2 years when they dropped their commitment for OTA support?

    They bottom line is that they don't provide all of the OTA content via satellite. They used to with OTA support. They don't care. You don't care. Fine. But they won't have me as a customer...
  16. Dec 7, 2007 #816 of 1344

    mhayes70 New Member

    Mar 21, 2006
    :nono2: Good luck on finding someone that carries all OTA content via there system.

    I have never seen anything anywhere that they made a commitment to support OTA. Can you show me where they did?
  17. Dec 7, 2007 #817 of 1344

    say-what Active Member

    Dec 14, 2006
    New Orleans
    The HR20 is not discontinued. The HR20-700 has ceased production, but the HR20-100 continues.

    I have 2 HR20-700's and I fully expect that DIrecTV will continue to support those units well into the future. Afterall, they're still developing new features for the HR20's as I type this.....
  18. Dec 7, 2007 #818 of 1344

    TigerDriver Electronics Engineer

    Jul 27, 2007
    NOTE: I transcribed this post from notes I took at about 2am (my friend lives on the west coast), and I had to creatively reconstruct some of them today. Some stuff probably got lost during transcription.

    Last night I had an interesting conversation with a former colleague. He's a Ph. D. in Electrical Engineering with an MBA. He does strategic business consulting for technical companies. Without naming names, he discussed the stress on the TV industry caused by the FAA-mandated conversion of television broadcasts to Digital TV.

    Unlike other technological advances in telecommunications (color TV, FM stereo), the FAA made no attempt to make the new digital technology backwardly compatible with the old. Moreover, the FAA took the unprecedented step of decommissioning the old technology. In other words, after Feb 12, 2009 your existing TV will be useless without a digital-to-analog converter.

    Although we spoke in general terms, the same problems exists for satellite and cable companies. Here's my extrapolation from our conversation as it relates to D*.

    On February 17, 2009, Digital (high definition) content is mandated on all FAA regulated broadcasts, and analog broadcasts are forbidden. Although non-broadcast (i.e., "cable") networks are not regulated via the FCC, the majors have announced that they will provide HD versions of their programming at no premium over the SD versions; many majors have announced that their SD versions will be discontinued at the end of 2009.

    Because there will be no alternative to digital programming on broadcast networks on February 17, 2009, and non-broadcast networks will provide it without premium, D*s revenue currently derived from surcharging HD content is doomed. Although it's possible for D* to down-convert HD content to 480p, such content would be costly to provide, and most important, put D* at a distinct competitive disadvantage--not to mention create a potential PR nightmare.

    So, in early 2009, D* will lose the revenue stream currently provided by their HD package. The first business question is how to replace these revenues and the second is how to leverage the new landscape into new revenues.

    The best source of new revenue comes from an unexpected source: conventional OTA programming. D* until recently built the hardware support (dual ATSC tuners) into its receivers, but received no revenue benefit from it.

    Here's how D* will use OTA/network programming to replace the revenue it will eventually lose from premiums on HD packages.

    • Stop selling receivers with ATSC tuners.
    • When building (or refurbishing) units that have ATSC tuners, make certain that the tuners can be enabled/disabled by D* command.
    • Build an external, optional ATSC tuner that that can be sold or leased to customers who want OTA content.
    • After an extensive and intense ad campaign preparing existing customers for the new scheme, disable all unsubscribed ATSC tuners. Have lots of CSRs standing by.

    When these steps are completed, the basic programming package will not include local programming and, without NTSC tuners, no HD OTA broadcast network programming. Remember, though, that users who don't subscribe to the OTA package described below can still plug their antennas into their TV and enjoy all network shows and get local news, commercials, etc. What D* hopes to sell is the right to record this content on their (D*-owned) DVR.

    The OTA revenue options:

    1. Spot-beams of locals (if available). As spot beams are satellite based, the price of this option may become very expensive.
    2. Users who have receivers with on-board OTA tuners (e.g., HR10, HR20) can re-activate them as a programming option. Hi-value customers may be grandfathered in at no cost.
    3. Users whose receivers have no on-board OTA tuners (e.g., HR21) can lease external hardware (probably USB-based) from D*; the lease fees will include the content option in option 2.
    4. Negotiations are in progress with "more than one" network to provide commercial-free prime-time network programming via subscription VOD. The programming would be time-shifted to avoid conflicts with broadcast prime-time and some ambiguous FCC regulations. The network subscriptions would be similar to those for current "premium" networks such as HBO, and would incorporate a revenue-sharing component. There has also been some talk about selling commercial-free prime-time network subscriptions, but viable revenue models have not yet been found ; IOW, networks would lose more from loss of advertising revenue than they'd gain from commissions on sales of commercial-free content.

      If even part of this is true, it is a fascinating (and ballsy) strategy.
  19. Dec 7, 2007 #819 of 1344

    hasan Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2006
    Ogden, IA
    This whole business has been (as the lawyers say, when they object), "Asked and Answered". The add-on OTA has been promised. See Stuart's original post and his recent (last page or so) summary follow-up.

    Let's not put ourselves into the situation of not being able to take "yes" for an answer. No one wants a "yes" answer more than I do (see my posting record), but this incessant carping over something that has been promised to be resolved is silly.
    (on both sides)

    If the goal is to get OTA back into things, we're close. If, on the other hand, we just want to prove the other side wrong, and extract our pound of flesh, well....I have neither the time nor the inclination....nor will anyone succeed as the volume and content of the posts in this thread readily confirm.
  20. Dec 7, 2007 #820 of 1344

    Maruuk Hall Of Fame

    Dec 4, 2007
    Anyways, we now have two statements from DTV: One in which they promise a forthcoming fix. And a follow-up in which they reveal the specific fix, even mentioning the third-party company building the tuner. What is so controversial about this? They messed up, are scrambling to rectify the mess they created, and are even supplying a rough delivery time frame.

    Game over, dudes.
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