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Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Sixto, Jun 17, 2010.
hehe ... nope ... just new FW would be enough
For SWiM technology at least, I really don't see why new receivers (or more generally "hardware") would be necessary. Seems like just a matter of the receiver's FW being updated to communicate new transponder selection messages over the 2.3 MHz control channel for the 18 transponders within the new 17.3-17.7 GHz RDBS band which is now part of the frequency stack input to the SWiM switch of either a new SWiMLNB or external SWiM module.
The current LNB down-converted frequency stack is of course 250-750 MHz, 950-1450 MHz, and 1650-2150 MHz, which then feeds into a SWiM switch, integrated or external. Now how can the new 17.3-17.7 GHz band be translated to somewhere above 2150 MHz (since there is no place left in the band stack to place it) without hardware upgrades to the LNBs and any external SWiM modules?
I would guess, but there are 18 "channels" I've seen in SWiM SL3 output (see AT-9 thread), also I did answer to a q about receivers, only. SWiM have a deal with LNBF outputs (IF) directly, using a matrix switch IC - no need to send it above 2.15 GHz freq.
Well for RDBS if new hardware is needed, then maybe they would regulate special programming like HD Ethnic tiers in there. That would cut back on the number of visits to homes to get this accomplished.
If the mainstream D14 will not need equipment upgrades (simply firmware to tell the receiver where to tune and how to display it in the signal diagnostic screen), then that would be great!
The beauty of something like SWiM is that the receivers only need to understand how to control the switchgear. As long as the SWiM channels are large enough to handle a transponder, there shouldn't be a problem.
Existing external SWiM switchgear seems very, very iffy.
There will be ongoing debate about receiving multiple bands from the same slot.
P. Smith, if you're referring to the recent AT-9 thread here; http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/205263-at9-dish/
I can't find any post by you there mentioning these "18 channels" you discovered from an SL-3 LNB.
Could you provide a link?
You see I'm assuming, perhaps wrongly I admit, that even for the integrated SWiM in an LNB, the "input" side of the single wire multiswitch circuitry requires the same traditional 4 wire (for Sat. A, B, and possibly C) input from the LNBs for the 950-2150 MHz frequency stack. Though for the integrated SWiM the "wires" are likely circuit board traces.
[strike]Therefore to add the 17.3-17.7 GHz band requires "two" additional wires from new RDBS band LNB circuits for the two 9 channel odd-even transponder sets, since the new band would have to be placed somewhere outside the current stack above 2150 MHz and cannot "share" the same 4 Ku band wires like the current Ka band does. [/strike]
Nope, other one (perhaps with other keyword :scratch: ) - there're two participants at its end - VOS and me, I posted pictures and we did talk about SWiM signaling ...
As to using 250/950/1650 IF freqs, it's a requirement for switches outside LNBF like WB68 or SWM16. Inside of a block of LNBFs all three or four LNBF outputs could come to internal switch as direct lines from each LNBF without shifting up or down, output from the combo (LNBFs and SWiM switch) is a result of converting to narrow chunks [individual tpn], not shifting up/down whole 500 MHz range with all even/odd tpns.
Ok, this is my thinking;
First let me say "my bad" for asserting that two additional wires would be needed to incorporate the RDBS band. :sure: Only the standard 4 are needed and I've struck those statements in my prior post.
Anyway, let's assume the same 200 MHz guard band is used between the frequency blocks in the current stack;
Using the standard 4 trunk wire input to a single wire multiswitch, the hypothetical frequency stack from the LNBs to the SWiM switch would be ...
Wire 1 = 101 Ku (950-1450 MHz) + 99 Ka (250-750 MHz and 1650-2150 MHz) + RB-1 (2350- 2750 MHz); EVEN Transponders
Wire 2 = 101 Ku (950-1450 MHz) + 99 Ka (250-750 MHz and 1650-2150 MHz) + RB-1 (2350- 2750 MHz); ODD Transponders
Wire 3 = 110 (possibly) + 119 Ku (950-1450) + 103 Ka (250-750 MHz and 1650-2150 MHz) + RB-2 (2350-2750 MHz): EVEN transponders.
Wire 4 = 119 Ku (950-1450) + 103 Ka (250-750 MHz and 1650-2150 MHz) + RB-2 (2350-2750 MHz): ODD transponders.
Note: For a SL-3 wires 1 and 2 are the same as above. Wires 3 and 4 have 101 replacing 119 above and no 110 of course.
The issue here hardware-wise though is how to down-convert the incoming 17.3-17.7 GHz RDBS band to something like this 2350-2750 MHz example and how to update the FW (assuming it needs it) for the SWiM multiswitch to accommodate the new RDBS frequency block without the need for new equipment.
Now are you saying this is not the method it would done at least for the inputs to the SWiM multiswitch circuitry?
As I visualize the SWiMLNB as just like a miniaturized and integrated (on the same circuit board) version of its enlarged cousin. A conventional LNB connected by 4 trunk lines which feed the 950-2150 MHz frequency stack to an external SWiM-8 module.
Not that I'm not interested in the conversation that is being held here, but I think we have gone off topic. This thread is to discuss events related to the launching and technology to be used on D14. I realize that RDBS is a major feature of D14, but we have gotten into a discussion on the terrestial equipment being used to process RDBS. So I guess my question is does this deserve a thread of it's own?
I would vote - yes and no . We almost done.
I would post just a picture to show internals of LNBFs & SWiM switch combo with signals and after that the side aspect of future implementation of receiving RDBS signals from D14 will be closed forever (!, yeah!)
I thought RDBS was a feature of the last few birds that launched and yet we didn't ever get the authorization to use those yet did we?
I would guess, if they are up there and FCC knows, then some test is undergoing (quietly for us)
Well, IIRC the RDBS payload on D11 was strictly an experimental package and transmitted only continuous wave signals, No modulation. When D12 went up DIRECTV was in the midst disputing with Spectrum 5 over the reverse band rights to 103 w, so D12 was equipped with a very limited spotbeamed RDBS band payload, "RB-2A," for advanced customer testing I assume, preceding their full CONUS coverage RB-2 bird which by then the dispute should be resolved,
The future D14/RB-1 will be the first to carry a full CONUS coverage RDBS payload for actual subscriber use at 99 w. Thus my active discussion here about it here.
However, even though I feel this is a part of D14 and relevant to the thread here, if the moderators feel its OT, I'll certainly drop the subject for any other news about D14.
Though I've heard nothing else new to report on D14's progress so far.
Be great if SS Loral or DIRECTV released regular updates on D14 and other satellites under construction, but they don't. .
Fine to discuss here, will reopen that D14 thread eventually.
Well if there's some form of RDBS that was already planned and maybe even tested, makes me wonder what accommodations (if any) were made when engineering SWM. How flexible did they design it... How much can firmware control (variable programmable filters and tuners) vs how much is hard coded / limited by the physical electronics.
Yeah getting OT, but when D14 is up we curious minds want to know how to receive its signals in full!
This topic has come up before and previously we've not seen any ability to upgrade the firmware in a SWiM in the field. At least previously. Also don't know how flexible it already is. There have been rumors of new SWiM technology.
With a new LNB that puts the RDBS on a new pair of wires, couldn't they just use the Flex Ports on the existing SWMs?
I understand that there are C and Ku combinations but is it at all possible to set up a feed horn that can do Ku and RDBS where the frequencies aren't handy multiples? Needing multiple and/or regional reflectors or some manner of oversized siamesed dish doesn't seem workable.
Should be possible, even though like other specific details of DIRECTV's ODU equipment our knowledge of how the flexports are signaled is limited due to corporate propriety;
But while sufficient miniaturization may make an integrated SWiMLNB feasible, you're talking about a rather large hardware change for subs. using external SWiM modules.
A new wider LNB with six female F connectors, requiring a wider LNB feed arm and thus a new dish assembly part to accommodate it.
And then I'm sure the SWiM modules would mostly need to be installed or re-installed outdoors since how many subs want and unsightly 6 coax cables (or three twins) running through a larger access hole in their homes?
The present 4 cables (or two twins) is bad enough already, but now 6?