DIRECTV Satellite Discussion D-15 @103W

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Gary Toma, Jun 4, 2014.

  1. May 7, 2015 #281 of 812
    HoTat2

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    Arianespace list it as May 27th;
    http://www.arianespace.com/news/mission-status.asp

    No specific time of day given yet that I know of....

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  2. May 8, 2015 #282 of 812
    cforrest

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  3. May 8, 2015 #283 of 812
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Dish's blanket earth station license for 25,000 3.5m and 25,000 4.5m dishes in the US to receive RDBS from Ciel-6 at 103 was accepted for filing on April 22nd. That doesn't mean the FCC will approve Ciel's use of 103 in the US, but it moves things a step closer to resolution - or perhaps more likely, moves things closer to a seemingly inevitable court date.

    Since Dish appears to be pulling the puppet strings in the background, they may want something in exchange for dropping the 103 license in the US (and in Canada, without which the license is useless in the US since people in places like Detroit and Buffalo would not be able to receive RDBS from D15) such as Directv giving up the three transponders it holds on 110 - or maybe they even hold out for everything on 119 as well...though Directv couldn't release those for a few years until they discontinue MPEG2 programming.

    http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/ib/forms/reports/swr031b.hts?q_set=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number/%3D/SESLFS2014092400752&prepare=&column=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number
     
  4. May 9, 2015 #284 of 812
    HoTat2

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    The thing I question though is DIRECTV's system of using the Ku band at 101, 110, and 119 to transmit SI, guide info. firmware updates, authorization info. etc. while reserving the Ka band for A/V data only just an arbitrary one they can modify to allow the Ka band to carry such info. if they wish?

    Because if it is a necessity then surrendering the remaining three xpndrs at 110 to Dish would be a problem nowadays as there are no other Ku satellites that can hit Puerto Rico except for the re-pointed D5 at 110 or D15's Ku DBS payload.

    And I severely doubt DIRECTV would use a valuable resource like D15 for such a limited purpose,
    nor can you move D5 to 101 or 119 without removing CONUS xpndrs from those slots as it's nationwide wide beam will obviously interfere with the other birds there even with the beam peak aimed at PR.
     
  5. May 9, 2015 #285 of 812
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Data is data ... there should be no reason why the guide and other tech data cannot be hosted on Ka transponders. Just like there is no prohibition (other than available space) to putting MPEG4 on the Ku transponders. As long as the system can tell the switch where the data is the data should be able to be tuned.
     
  6. May 9, 2015 #286 of 812
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    well, if you'll be more familiar with DTV FW ... it's a conglomerate of pre-millenium era of DBes, FW algos , SI tables, etc
    I'm afraid if they will touch it, it will fall out as a house of cards :)
     
  7. May 9, 2015 #287 of 812
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    In my opinion SWiM switches would be the biggest challenge. But it becomes an interesting deep technical discussion that is moot as long as there is a Ku satellite available to use. I do not expect DirecTV to be abandoning Ku.
     
  8. May 9, 2015 #288 of 812
    inkahauts

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    I don't really understand your worry about 110 and 119 with regards to guide data etc. you don't need either of those slots for any of those services, hence so many installs with just the core 99 101 and 103.

    Why wouldn't they use d15 for KU for PR if they where allowed to. I just don't know if they technically are allowed to or not and if the day can function a couple conus + transponders for that like it can for ka band for pr from where d15 is going to be.

    D5 is old and its replacement was actually scrapped a long time ago. That slot appears to be headed toward retirement. I'd have to look but I would be a bit surprised if a space way could /would take over its channels pr or even maybe they will come from d14 dedicated spots for there.

    Plus who knows if the next sat DIRECTV builds will be for 101 and have conus + transponders for pr Alaska and hi. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that happened.
     
  9. May 9, 2015 #289 of 812
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    As I said nothing at all is needed beyond 101 to get everything to make your system work including firmware updates and guide data. And 101 is never going away (it's their core KU!). So I can't seen any issues if they gave up or leased off their licenses for 119 and especially 110.
     
  10. May 9, 2015 #290 of 812
    HoTat2

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    But I'm saying 110 is to PR what 101 is to CONUS+ and Hawaii.

    Besides some twenty some odd SD channels, much more importantly the SI, Guide, FW updates, etc. for PR come from 110 as no other current Ku band DIRECTV satellite's footprint at 101 or 119 covers them. They could use the upcoming D15's Ku DBS payload, but would have to locate it at 101 thereby losing it's Ka and RDBS payload capacity at it's primary assigned slot of 103.

    So if you give away 110, how can PR reasonably access the Ku DBS band for the foreseeable future?
     
  11. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Awh I see your worry now.

    . (Although I don't know about your analogy because conus+ is what's on the new d14 say that has beams for pr that are basically mirrors of actual conus transponders. I don't think any KU sat has that right now)

    I see no reason they cant send all that info via a transponder from d14 or even d15. I think the reason they have always done KU for conus is because everyone in the U.S. Can get KU for sure. Not everyone can get ka. Can't everyone in pr get both KU and ka?
     
  12. HoTat2

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    Well first regarding the meaning of "CONUS+" it's a little confusing, but when speaking of the present Ku band birds at 101, 110, and 119 CONUS+ means the continental US, Alaska, and Hawaii. No Puerto Rico.

    For the newer Ka band birds at 99 and 103, CONUS+ means just the continental US and Alaska with Hawaii and now beginning with D14 and D15, Puerto Rico, supplied by spotbeams for mirrored CONUS+ xpndrs.

    And no, there are no current Ku satellites that have a footprint covering PR except the reoriented D5 from 110.

    This is why I asked initially if there was some technical reason why DIRECTV must supply system and guide data only from the Ku band. Because if mandatory then I don't see how DIRECTV can afford to let 110 go to Dish short of a new generation of Ku satellites at 101 with spotbeam capability to PR for mirrored CONUS+ xpndrs, for how else will PR access the Ku band?

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  13. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think this data must come from Ku? The receiver's firmware tells it where to look for initial configuration data when the receiver is started (the "downloading satellite info" progress bar on the SD GUI) It makes sense to have this on 101 in the US because every single install in the US includes 101, and always will for the foreseeable future.

    I don't know what the install scenarios for PR are, do all installs include 110? Or do HD installs include 99/103 only? Once they drop MPEG2 SD in PR, all it would take is a firmware update to tell the PR receivers to look at 99 or 103. Anyway, if Directv made a deal to give Dish transponders on 110, they wouldn't have to make it effective immediately. They could make it effective in 2018, or whenever it is they plan to discontinue MPEG2 SD in PR. Or they could make it contingent on Dish continuing to provide spot beams to PR from 110 for a number of years.

    I don't think SWMs are a problem, because SWMs are very dumb. Just like receivers tell the SWM the polarity/frequency they want instead of telling it what channel they want, they probably tell it where guide data is found. Maybe they're hardwired to put a specific polarity/frequency on SWM channel 1 and that can't be changed, but that seems like an unnecessary complication.
     
  14. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    I have faith that should the situation arise DirecTV will work out any issues.
     
  15. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.

    And now that I think about it, while the receiver's firmware may have an idea where to look for that data, if it isn't found is almost certainly programmed to get around this by either scanning all the transponders one by one until it finds what it is looking for, or every transponder has some little bit of data repeated every few seconds that tells the receivers where to look.
     
  16. Tom Robertson

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    We probably should break the question of "does SI, APG, etc. data have to come via Ku?" into two parts: technical and logistical.

    Technically, the data can be delivered from any data feed DIRECTV can muster: C-band, Ku, Ka, Internet, cell phone, wireless, or string/tincup. :) It just has to support the data rates and reliability necessary for DIRECTVs purposes.

    Logistically, at least most of the data has to come via Ku at 101° as it does today. There are many, many receivers that can only see that satellite and frequency combination. It is the common denominator for all DIRECTV systems in the US.

    In theory, DIRECTV could direct HD receivers to look at other locations--but only if they are certain the receivers are in fact hooked up to receive the other location. Remember some systems are hooked up to single location dishes part-time and multi-satellite dishes at other times. (Think RVs.) :)

    Also remember there are no savings to moving the data or breaking it up. The complexity and lower reliability out weight the lack of benefits. :)

    Peace,
    Tom
     
  17. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Has PR ever had as KU single
    LNB dishes installed? I thought they where always MPEG 4 equipment with a 5 lnb. If so I see no reason logistically anything for pr needs to come from any particular slot in the long run.
     
  18. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    P Smith or one of the people who investigate DirecTV feeds would be able to help. DISH has made it easy ... tables transmitted on every transponder tell the receiver where to go for any feed (EPG, Firmware). I can't imagine DirecTV not being able to handle the problem.
     
  19. HoTat2

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    But I don't necessarily think it ...

    I really don't know for sure whether it must or not, that's why I posed it as a question for a topic of discussion. Is there some technical reason why system and guide data only come from Ku?

    I understand for logistical reasons as Tom points out sys. and guide data coming from 101 and mirrored at 119, but why does service to PR imitate the same methodology of. transmitting sys. and guide data from Ku with Ka left to only A/V data instead of just sending both from Ka?

    Could there be some technical limitations involved in this scheme? For instance might the receiver's network tuners be only able to receive the Ku band (i.e. tune to an IF between 950-1450 MHz)?

    And/or could the SWiM LNBs or ext. modules' embedded firmware be designed to seek guide data only from Ku?

    Or could this just be DIRECTV creating a reason for 110's continued existence since they can't simply spectrum squat at that location?



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  20. HoTat2

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    According to our main colleague in PR, "Luis", All subs. there use the SL-5 with service provided from 99, 103, and 110. 101 and 119 are not used.

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