1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

DIRECTV's 160 channels beats DISH's 200 channels

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Doug Brott, Apr 20, 2010.

  1. Bigg

    Bigg Godfather

    434
    23
    Feb 26, 2010
    Don't forget Planet Green HD, Travel HD, and Investigation Discovery HD (only on U-Verse AFAIK).

    Although the free market hasn't seemed to turn the heat up for the incumbents, at least these guys are duking it out, which, even with ridiculous channel counts greatly benefits the consumer in the end, as they are pushing adding HD left and right.
     
  2. GrumpyBear

    GrumpyBear Hall Of Fame

    3,236
    0
    Feb 1, 2006
    You mean Investigation Discovery is only Available on U-Verse(and Brighthouse) right? Dish and Direct Both have Planet Green in HD now, and Dish has the Travel Channel in HD already.
     
  3. mystic7

    mystic7 Icon

    632
    3
    Dec 9, 2007
    Oh, ok, so you actually do WATCH tv, not just measure pixel counts :D
    Just yankin' ya, btw.
     
  4. Avder

    Avder Hall Of Fame

    1,395
    0
    Feb 6, 2010
    So, I was curious. How much bandwidth, in terms of frequency allocations, does DirecTV have compared to Dish Network and the average Cable operator (eg Comcrap)?
     
  5. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

    12,566
    61
    Nov 16, 2005
    Wylie, Texas
    Actually, I believe it's MILT.
     
  6. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    46,190
    1,074
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    There really isn't a fair comparison. Digital cable companies are working with a different technology. Instead of large transponders they have smaller channels that carry the same number of feeds. They also do not have to carry locals for other markets. Each head end feeds only the channels they need to deliver locally.

    DISH vs DirecTV there is also a problem of comparison. All of DirecTVs bandwidth is centrally located and all of their customers use the same satellites for service. DISH has divided the country into western and eastern service where they are using three orbital locations for the east and three for the west. Basically, DISH is transmitting everything twice. Plus DISH has three satellite slots that have formerly been used for their DISH Network service that are currently used for business and international services. A number would be just a number without a lot of qualification (and the usual debate over what counts).
     
  7. Avder

    Avder Hall Of Fame

    1,395
    0
    Feb 6, 2010
    Well sure, but then you can get into stuff like how many MHz of Bandwidth are needed per channel and the like, which can reflect meaningful things like picture quality.
     
  8. Bigg

    Bigg Godfather

    434
    23
    Feb 26, 2010
    Yeah, poor wording, only Investigation Discovery isn't on D* and E*, as D* is getting TravelHD soon.

    Dish's two arcs in a way save a LOT on locals bandwidth, since a satellite dish that only sees 3 satellites allows those three to carry only half of the nation's locals. The weird part is that most installs in "Eastern Arc" areas are still split with 61.5/110/119, since they were upgraded to HD.

    EDIT: That, and you can't compare bandwidth, as satellite uses MPEG-4, and cables uses MPEG-2.
     
  9. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

    12,971
    204
    Jul 24, 2006
    Columbia, MD
    Yeah, cause when the provider locks you into a two year contract, you should only look at what they have the day you order. Makes sense to me.
     
  10. drkashner

    drkashner Cool Member

    14
    0
    Nov 16, 2008
    Will the new D12 sat. be handling any local HD channels? I wish they would add my local CW and PBS HD channels. If I had them I wouldn't need my OTA antenna. I'm also disappointed we're not getting BBC America HD.
     
  11. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    46,190
    1,074
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    It is the only thing that the customer has any (reasonable) guarantee of seeing.

    Hopefully when someone signs up they sign based on the current lineup and nothing important goes missing (like Versus - although DirecTV is not alone in problems with programmers). If they sign up based on a promise of more HD than currently offered they may be disappointed when the September satellite launch turns into late December and you're still waiting to see something new as the announced deadlines approach.

    If one signs up based on future programming one would like their 24 month commitment to include mostly months of having the promised programming available and not months of waiting for it. It is good to have some promise that what the provider has isn't all they will have for the next two years ... but hopefully people can be happy with what is available at the moment they signed up. It's the old bird in the hand thing.
     
  12. evan_s

    evan_s Hall Of Fame

    2,136
    0
    Mar 3, 2008
    This is a really complex question because there are so many factors involved. If you looked at Sat compared to Cable, Sat would look massively ahead in the terms of raw mhz allocations they have. A full ku allocation is 500mhz of each polarity for 1ghz worth total. A ka allocation actually has 2 blocks of space in each allocation for effectively 2ghz worth. 2 ka and 1 ku allocation in the core DirecTV would have 5ghz of total bandwidth available to a customer with a SL3 which looks huge compared to the ~850 a typical cable co has. Dish has closer to 2 1/2 ku allocations for their eastern and western arcs. They use 3 different slots for each but both arcs have some of them that are not fully dishes (110/119 are shared with DirecTV on the west and 72.5 is shared with DirecTV on the east).

    This isn't a fair comparison tho because Cable Co's use QAM with no FEC(forward error correction) because their signal doesn't have to deal with nearly as much interference or possible interruptions as a Sat signal does. Dealing with qpsk or 8psk and the FEC that is needed for Sat to provide a stable signal gives you less effective bandwidth, in terms of mbs, from the raw frequency allocations possible.

    To put it in a more simple metric DirecTV has 96 KA tps between 99 and 103. If they had the sats in place and where using them all for Conus channels with their typical 5 channels per TP would allow for 480 channels. Obviously they need to use some of those to provide their local channels and they don't have the sats in place to use that many KA tps. Figuring another d12 like sat for 99 and all 4 sats running 16 conus tps would give them 320 Conus hd channels and still leave plenty of tps for spots to cover local channels and would be a pretty simple step from where they are now.

    They also have 101/110/119 Ku and BSS 99/103/111 to work with so they seem to have plenty of potential space available.
     
  13. Bigg

    Bigg Godfather

    434
    23
    Feb 26, 2010
    That still doesn't account for MPEG-2 vs. MPEG-4. Also, cable could have virtually unlimited bandwidth, if they went to 100 home nodes with 1ghz SDV, effectively turning everything except clear QAM locals into VOD streams. If they actually rebuilt their plants for the 21st century and killed analog once and for all, they would blow right by DirecTV and Dish with the same number of HD channels but at the full 19mbit half-channel QAM without recompression, but they think their incumbent status is going to protect them forever. U-Verse also has virtually unlimited channel capacity, even though they can only do two or three (at best) HD streams into the house at once.
     
  14. JoeTheDragon

    JoeTheDragon Hall Of Fame

    4,697
    39
    Jul 21, 2008
    I hear from WCIU they D* may add it when D* has more room.
     
  15. JoeTheDragon

    JoeTheDragon Hall Of Fame

    4,697
    39
    Jul 21, 2008
    What where to happen if the unthinkable happen and your RSN got pulled off? Be able to drop out with no ETF?
     
  16. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    46,190
    1,074
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    Personally? I'm beyond any ETF date for my service.
    I also cannot remember the last time I watched my RSN.
     
  17. JoeTheDragon

    JoeTheDragon Hall Of Fame

    4,697
    39
    Jul 21, 2008
    cables high box rent costs are killing then and lack of VOD on 3rd party stuff is bad as well also the need for add on SDV tuners for cable card boxes as well.
     
  18. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

    12,971
    204
    Jul 24, 2006
    Columbia, MD
    No, you cannot assume everything will work out but you should at least be aware that something is happening and factor that in. If you just look at today, you have no idea what can happen.

    If you bought a house in a new development, wouldn't you want to know if the plan was to put a house that blocked that tremendous view up in the next six months?
     
  19. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    21,331
    247
    Nov 15, 2005
    Nope. I would assume someone will build a house in every lot nearby. :) I would look at the plot layout and determine what lines of sight I would have.

    So I would factor that in up front.

    Now, I were to suddenly look for new Pay TV service, I personally would factor in that everyone will have more HD. :)

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  20. evan_s

    evan_s Hall Of Fame

    2,136
    0
    Mar 3, 2008
    Yup. I agree that there are a ton of factors that make it very difficult to make a good comparison. Most Cable Co's big issue is the legacy analog channels. A single analog channel takes up as much space as a digital QAM channel which can hold 2 or 3 hd channels or even more SD channels. Area's that have gone completely or almost all digital are typically the areas with the most HD channels available on cable networks. Cable networks do also loose some channel capacity to space used for Data for Cable modems or reserved for their on-demand services.

    With appropriately sized nodes and SDV they could have virtually unlimited # of HD channels but SDV does face resistance due to it's compatibility issues with 3rd party boxes.

    Fios is basically a best case scenario for Cable Co's as it's setup basically makes each home their own node and carries all data/on demand data separately. So it is basically an all digital cable node able to use all the QAM channels for actual TV channels. They've had no problems with channel counts, even when only using 2 HD channels per QAM channel so they can pass the original OTA mpeg2 encoding.
     

Share This Page