DirecTV's PQ ain't what it used to be

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by slovell, Mar 18, 2021.

  1. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    It should be noted that Rokus will work with remotes that have number keys if the app supports them.
     
  2. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Didn't know that. I guess you're referring to universal remotes that can be programmed to work with Rokus? Because Roku doesn't ship a remote (oddly, not even for their smart TVs) with number buttons.
     
  3. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Actually, there are third party non-universal Roku remotes now. One of the better third party remotes controls only a TV and a Roku.

    The Roku remote apps for devices also do digits.
     
  4. DanoP

    DanoP Legend

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    Couple of years ago I opted for a Sony 930e lcd over an lg oled just because of burn in. Read too many stories on AVS forum and saw a very badly burned in big box demo. Then there was the RTINGS test which showed too much smoke which indicated fire IMO. I have a Panasonic plasma that’s 15 yrs old that I broke in properly and shows no signs of burn in. Anyway I like my Sony LCDs and will revisit oled when the time comes. Regarding DTV PQ I recently switched to Fubo with 720p. In my judgement it’s better than DTV and 1080i.
     
  5. Mike1096

    Mike1096 Member

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    Not sure what you guys are seeing but Live TV streaming PQ, to me, is not as good as DirecTV.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  6. dtv757

    dtv757 Icon

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    It may vary based on type of broadband you have

    When I had DSL it was very reliable but streaming PQ was not as sharp... I think FCC "recommends " 25mbps or greater.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     
  7. DanoP

    DanoP Legend

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    The streaming players upconvert to 4K and there is something about a progressive picture that’s more pleasing to me than interlaced even though the interlaced resolution is higher. I had both Fubo and DTV together for a month and liked the Fubo upconverted pic better. There are a few Fubo streams at 30fps and those are nearly unwatchable to me.
     
  8. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Streaming players typically pass whatever they get and the TV handles the rest. Some players can upconvert but most do not.
     
  9. DanoP

    DanoP Legend

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    Both Roku Ultra and AppleTV upconvert. I know it’s not true 4K but the PQ is very good.
     
  10. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    The nVIDIA Shield can upconvert as well, but those are three in a market of many.

    For many with better than average TVs, there's little to no interest in having the streamer handle what the TV can do better. It is a paradox as the people who can afford the upscaling streamers already have TVs that do as well or better (depending on where you land on the Shield's "AI Upscaling").
     
  11. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    The SoC in an Apple TV is more powerful than what is in any TV sold, even the very highest end, so all things being equal it should do a better job of upscaling than the TV.

    What's more, you WANT the device doing the decompression to do the scaling, as it has access to information that is lost once you've converted MPEG/HEVC to HDMI, so even set tops that are less powerful than the TV they are connected to ought to be able to do a better job.

    I'm sure there are probably examples where a set top does a worse job, due to poor/buggy software or whatever, but they'd have to really try to screw it up that badly even when hooked to a $10,000 TV.

    If your set top can do scaling, have it do so not the TV. A high end AVR might do a better job, though I'll bet a lot of that is the tuning ability to get it "how you like it" rather than it actually doing a better job to an unbiased (i.e. someone who didn't spend $1000 on the AVR) viewer. Once you've converted to HDMI, a lot of information is lost meaning the AVR/TV has to do the job with one hand tied behind its back.
     
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  12. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    I question whether there is such a thing as an universal ideal upscale. No STB can know the ins and outs of the connected display and work seamlessly in conjunction with its undisclosed processing capabilities that may well be at odds. Doubling down on something like edge detection or smoothing may well create a monster.

    While the raw data processing power in the ATV is considerable, you would be hard pressed to prove that its video processing capability was clearly superior to that of a quality TV.
     
  13. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    I agree there's no "best" upscale. Tastes vary. But having access to the compressed stream gives set top boxes better information to allow them to do a better job.

    The display shouldn't have any "in and outs", if you use the upscaling in your set top you should disable all that stuff in the display. Pretty much all of them support a "game mode" or "PC mode" that presents the HDMI data without any additional modification.
     
  14. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Do you really imagine that anyone is going to want to jump through those hoops (especially in cheap TVs that don't have per-input settings)???
     
  15. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    And you would be hard pressed to prove otherwise. Perceived picture quality is in the eye of the beholder.

    No external box passes through exactly what is received from the Internet or satellite feeds. At best the box will negotiate with the TV to find its capabilities. At worst the box will convert the received signal to a standard output format most TVs can handle. The only way to get what is received from the Internet direct to a TV monitor is if the app receiving from the Internet is built in to the TV. No TV can create quality that is not passed to it from every step from source to screen.
     
  16. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

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    The folks with the $10,000 outboard scalers beg to differ :rolleyes:. A little confirmation bias there ;). When a scaler can do what the FBI do in movies where they take a pixelated mess and turn it into focus in seconds and can read the license plate, I'll be impressed.

    I don't have a $10k scaler, but I do have a higher end Denon AVR, and I'll say I did a side by side comparison between that and my LG OLED on "Who Scaled It Better?" and the TV won hands down. The Denon made the picture much worse.

    So what he's really saying is the the ATV screws the pic up the least in his opinion ;).
     
  17. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    I agree.

    I remember the first big screen TVs ... all SD, of course. Huge screens that would rival today's 8K TVs ... and projectors that would fill a wall. With a SD image. The number of digits in the price tag seemed to make the image much clearer than SD on a smaller set. :)
     
  18. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    I don't believe the onus is mine in this case.
    And perhaps why people loved DIRECTV for its special blend of pre-compression video enhancements.
    Sounds like you may have partaken of slice1900's Koolaid. HDMI negotiates only make, model and perhaps serial number along with basic capabilities like pixel matrix, sound and HDR/WCG capabilities. It would be a large database indeed that could look up make and model along with the unknown firmware revision to construct an optimal solution. EDID doesn't answer key questions about whether or not motion compensation is enabled or even the chosen viewing mode (i.e. sports, movies, PC or custom).
    A somewhat violent reversal from one paragraph to the next here. Which is it?

    I'm not sure how much utility there is in knowing what the compression scheme was in trying to "undo" the damage at the consumer level. It might be helpful but I'm not convinced that anything sort of a very expensive dedicated video processor (not to be confused with a general purpose data processor) could sort it all out on-the-fly. I'd guess you're not going to find anything like that in an ATV but you have options with the in-built TV capabilities where at least the display's full set of parameters are known. Apple has two targets with the ATV: Cost at least double its comparable retail market value and insure a great experience with Apple TV+. I don't think there's room in there for $$$ worth of video processing genius.
     
  19. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    The problem is you have a severe reading disorder. "No TV can create quality that is not passed to it from every step from source to screen." A TV that receives streamed content direct from the Internet would not have some other box potentially changing the picture quality. Crappy output from an intermediate box is not going to be fixed by even the most expensive TV or second intermediate box.

    It may take some experimentation to determine what output from the initial receiver is best used by the TV set. But having the initial receiver set to a lower resolution than the desired outcome is a limit that cannot be overcome by additional processing. You will never get a pristine 4K or 8K picture from a 1080 or 720 source. The best you can do is get an acceptable picture - and "acceptable" is an opinion.
     
    krel likes this.
  20. stewdog1

    stewdog1 AllStar

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    I haven't read 8 pages of comments, but i have definitely noticed a difference in the hockey feeds. It used to be I could see the lines in the ice from the blades. Now it's just white and a bit fuzzy
     

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