DirecTV's PQ ain't what it used to be

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by slovell, Mar 18, 2021.

  1. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    What channel?
     
  2. stewdog1

    stewdog1 AllStar

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    Either NBC Sports or the Center Ice channels. Nothing has changed on my end.
     
  3. slovell

    slovell New Member

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    The Sony is a great tv, beautiful picture. It just smoked the plasma hands down. I bought a really well kept Marantz 4K AV7703 for a great price and sold my AV7005. Everything's hunky dory and I'm happy as a clam.
     
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  4. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Until this bit of obviousness, I don't think anyone suggested down-conversion at any point in the discussion. The issue is where up-conversion is best handled -- whether having deep insight into the stream parameters is more useful than knowing everything there is to know about the display parameters.

    The only use case I can think of for a streamer to down-convert is if the user chooses the wrong format and the streamer/service isn't smart enough to send the lower resolution stream instead.
     
  5. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Not even me. "A lower resolution than the desired outcome" is not suggesting down converting. It is stating the fact that whatever output the first box is set to no further processing is going to be able to add information not in that output. If you want 4K output set the initial box to 4K.
     
  6. JcT21

    JcT21 Legend

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    the only thing im able to compare to Directv's PQ is dish. i was a directv customer for a very long time. switched to dish 4 months ago and now im back with directv over dish's technical issues. however, right away i noticed that dish PQ was inferior compared to directv. to me, directv's HD PQ is excellent. i now understand what people mean when they say dish is HD lite. some say you cant tell the difference but its very obvious. my parents have dish for decades. they're able to see that my directv has better PQ than dish.

    unlike my kids, im not a fan of streaming so i cant say either way about their PQ.
     
  7. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    The question remains whether the box or the TV is better when it comes to rendering the final output on a given input (assuming no down-scaling as that would be insane to even contemplate). If the source stream is HD, setting the output of the streaming box to 4K will cause it to fabricate details that didn't exist in the original stream. The TV can't simply reverse any damage done by the streaming device as part of that conversion. With the new knowledge that certain video "proc amp" processing functions can be carried out by the soon-to-be-released ATV, this gets even more scary.

    Your use of the term "information" is curious. Further processing may not restore information, but it may improve upon the rendering and given the chance to work with less tinkered-with data, the TV algorithms do a better job at rendering that data for its display.

    Once the compression is undone, there should be no loss if you turn off video processing in the streaming device. The TV should have access to exactly the same data that the streaming box would be working with to do its up-conversion.

    I'm not at all convinced that the average streaming box has the means to do a better conversion that the average TV. I'm also unconvinced that the ATV is above average in the video processing department simply because it has a hot phone SoC (designed for decidedly unconventional displays) in it.
     
  8. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    If you have a streaming device with an "off" setting congratulations. Undoing the compression is converting the signal to a format the next device can handle. Usually a less compressed format with the streaming device filling in the picture elements lost due to compression. It isn't like opening a ZIP file or TAR ball on a computer and getting every bit of data that was put in the file in the right order. Video compression is not loss-less.
     
  9. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    While the compression operation (that takes place before storage on the streaming servers) is indeed lossy, decompression of the resultant stream is not a lossy operation and is indeed just like undoing an archive file. No matter how many times you do it, the results will be exactly the same.

    Why would a streaming device transcode the input stream? The streaming device may apply video processing (scaling, motion compensation, de-jittering, etc.) but that's absolutely not to be confused with lossy compression.
     
  10. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    In a perfect world the output would be bit by bit identical but we do not live in a perfect world - and you are certainly not going to be able to uncompress to the level of recreating the original input stream bit by bit identical. Not on a live stream.
     
  11. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Given the same input stream, every decode will be bit-by-bit identical. The lossy part applies uniquely to the compression operation.

    Since we don't have access to any other version of the data (unless you're still trying to argue intentionally forcing a lesser stream quality), your argument is nonsense. The question is how do we make the best of what we do have access to. That comes entirely down to the video processing that gets applied after the decode.
     
  12. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    I have an Apple TV 4K and LG OLED (2016 B6 model). The Apple TV does a slightly better job of HD to 4K upscaling than the TV, I think. It also does a surprisingly good job with motion, i.e. doing 3:2 pulldown to convert 24p content to 60p.
     
  13. Rob37

    Rob37 Well-Known Member

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    DIRECTV’s picture quality is what I would classify as okay. It should be the best. There are still some sports channels that have that annoying little judder in the audio. Sometimes it is there & sometimes it's not. Sometimes the frame will even pause & jump quickly to the next picture frame. It's just a split second, but it is there sometimes.
     
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  14. May 1, 2021 #174 of 182
    BrucePadgett

    BrucePadgett AllStar

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    Cartoon Network’s east coast feed has had split-second audio dropouts and distortion for over a year now. And no, I haven’t bothered letting them know. It’s not like the old days when you’d immediately get connected to an actual guy in Tech, who could then confirm the problem and work on it. Now you have to run the gauntlet with people who don’t have the channels in front of them to monitor any problems—particularly when so many customer service calls are being handled overseas. I now only phone DirecTV for billing questions, or a change in programming (for which I hold my breath and pray the change is executed correctly).

    Besides, at the rate they’re losing customers (2-3 million per year), in 5 years DirecTV as we know it may well and truly be a memory. They’re down from 20 million subs just a few years ago to 13 million. It’s a protracted death.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
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  15. May 7, 2021 #175 of 182
    krel

    krel New Member

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    i find the DTV PQ to be awesome though 323 and stars black i think and another movie channel look like crap like there in SD mode but if you get a HD feed it looks amazing and the 4k is jaw dropping
     
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  16. Teetertotter

    Teetertotter Member

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    If you have a station/channel issue, contact that station directly. They feed the programing and they need to fix or change. Pretty simple. Maybe there is a way to contact that broadcast station and express your concerns? DTV can't fix the feed.

    Also, this world is ever changing in all areas you can think of. How can you make a difference?
     
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  17. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    In the case of the cable channels (most of the specifically identified channels in this thread appear to be cable channels), it is likely that DIRECTV has a hand in the end result through their choice of what and how many channels it shares a transponder with.
     
  18. Rob37

    Rob37 Well-Known Member

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    The few baseball games I watched today the Picture Quality on DIRECTV looks much improved. I noticed today while watching YES for the Yankees Game, the picture looked alot better than it has and tonight's ESPN Sunday Night Baseball Game the PQ looked awesome.
     
  19. MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    I've been with DIRECTV since 1995. For all those years the picture quality has always been excellent.
     
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  20. krel

    krel New Member

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    wonders what kind of t.v. the OP is running that makes all the difference in the world to. i know i would never buy another TCL set again but it was a quick fix at the time. though the things i noticed with the TCL were lots of macro blocking high action motion blur pixelation
     

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