Knock yourselves out... discuss!
The ball is fair as:redsoxfan26 said:Rule 2.00
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A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first
base, or between home and third base, or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to
the outfield past first or third base, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first falls
on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair territory
touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes out of the
playing field in flight.
A fair fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul
line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the fielder is on fair or foul territory at the
time he touches the ball.
Rule 2.00 (Fair Ball) Comment: If a fly ball lands in the infield between home and first base, or
home and third base, and then bounces to foul territory without touching a player or umpire and before
passing first or third base, it is a foul ball; or if the ball settles on foul territory or is touched by a player
on foul territory, it is a foul ball. If a fly ball lands on or beyond first or third base and then bounces to
foul territory, it is a fair hit.
Taken straight from the rule book. It has to be a foul ball unless there is something your not telling us. Was this ball hit in a dome? Say, perhaps it hit a catwalk in Tampa Bay?
Which is defined by the cut of the infield grass or the white line on turf. Once the ball hits the dirt on the infield between the bags, no matter where it verse off into foul territory, the ball is then fair.ccsoftball7 said:The ball is fair as:
"falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base"
definitely! Also, I remember a really old d*reciever that when you did the quicktune, it would say the name of the program that was on where it now just says quicktune. It would be nice to get that feature back.Steve615 said:I added it to QuickTune on all 3 of our boxes yesterday.
A note to the DirecTV folks though...
Could you update the QT channel logo for MLB Network sometime soon? :grin:
Not necessarily since there is a small amount of dirt base path that would be considered as inside that line otherwise players going from one base to the next would have their right foot on dirt and their left foot on grass. Also there is a 13 foot dirt cut-out around the bases that would be on the infield.DodgerKing said:Which is defined by the cut of the infield grass or the white line on turf. Once the ball hits the dirt on the infield between the bags, no matter where it verse off into foul territory, the ball is then fair.
Hint: Think the diagonal of a square.txtommy said:I am assuming (not always a good thing to do) that infield would be an area defined by the four bases and a straight line drawn between them. If the ball lands in this area and spins foul it should be called foul. If the ball lands beyond this area and spins back into the infield before going foul it is still fair.
If a ball were to hit the infield a few inches short of second base and somehow spin into foul territory short of first or third then it would be considered foul provided that at no time did it touch ground outside of the infield.
It would be fair because the ball went past first or third base, just as it did in my scenario above.raoul5788 said:I MAY :eek2: be wrong here LV, but even if a fly ball lands in the outfield untouched, spins backwards and ends up crossing the foul line between first or third and home, I am calling it a foul ball.
Ah, therein lies your problem.redsoxfan26 said:Rule 2.00
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A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first
base, or between home and third base, or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to
the outfield past first or third base, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first falls
on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair territory
touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes out of the
playing field in flight.
A fair fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul
line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the fielder is on fair or foul territory at the
time he touches the ball.
Rule 2.00 (Fair Ball) Comment: If a fly ball lands in the infield between home and first base, or
home and third base, and then bounces to foul territory without touching a player or umpire and before
passing first or third base, it is a foul ball; or if the ball settles on foul territory or is touched by a player
on foul territory, it is a foul ball. If a fly ball lands on or beyond first or third base and then bounces to
foul territory, it is a fair hit.
Taken straight from the rule book. It has to be a foul ball unless there is something your not telling us. Was this ball hit in a dome? Say, perhaps it hit a catwalk in Tampa Bay?
That is incorrect.DodgerKing said:Which is defined by the cut of the infield grass...
I don't get it. You say the ball never hit the dirt, it landed on the edge of the grass, and then rolled foul. Again, HOW is it not foul?Lord Vader said:It never touched the dirt, and the edge of the infield grass is not beyond first base here.
Where in the rules does it specify that past first or third is on the diagonal? If you were to make this assumption, would you not at least require a 90' radius from home plate. A ball that travels only 64' can be beyond the diagonal but has not passed either 1st or 3rd base. If you draw a perpendicular to the 1st and 3rd baselines then the intersection is second base. The rules would not state 'or that touches first, second or third base' if the area inside 2nd base were not included in this. According to your claim it would not be necessary to touch second base or even come close to reaching second base. A ball that hits the field short of second base has not yet passed 1st or 3rd. A ball that hits the rosin bag 3 feet behind the mound and then skips foul has not passed 1st or 3rd base.Lord Vader said:Hint: Think the diagonal of a square.
It would be fair because the ball went past first or third base, just as it did in my scenario above.
Not only is it not in the rule book, it contradicts the rule book. Why state that if the ball hits second base and then goes foul it is considered fair if in fact the ball can fall 63' short of second base, bounce foul and still be fair. I still do not see how you can pass something 90 feet away by only going 64'. Technically a ball traveling a few feet down the 1st base line has passed 3rd base because it is passed the perpendicular line of its direction. But in fact, neither of these makes for common sense unless the rules have been rewritten to remove reference to hitting in the outfield and passing a base to stating that it must pass a diagonal between 1st and 3rd. If the umpires have by consensus changed the meaning of the words, then to be fair to all who play the game the written rules should also be changed.Lord Vader said:Using your logic, a ball could then fall just shy of second base, roll back across the foul line before first base, and be foul. This is not correct. Once the ball touches the ground beyond the diagonal of the square, it is fair. This is the OBR interpretation of fair ball because the ball has "passed" first or third base when it goes beyond the square's diagonal, which is the line drawn between first and third base.
I told you not to turn to the rule book for black and white answers, because so much is not in there.
First, I never said the ball HIT second base then rolled back foul. Second, the ruling I gave does not contradict the rule book, and even if it did, so what? Baseball's rule book is filled with contradictory rulings, rulings that completely go against each other. That is why we have official interpretations. Third, get rid of this "perpendicular" line to which you refer. It has no bearing on this. One must think of the diagonal of the square. A ball that has gone past that line is fair. Period.txtommy said:Not only is it not in the rule book, it contradicts the rule book. Why state that if the ball hits second base and then goes foul it is considered fair if in fact the ball can fall 63' short of second base, bounce foul and still be fair. I still do not see how you can pass something 90 feet away by only going 64'. Technically a ball traveling a few feet down the 1st base line has passed 3rd base because it is passed the perpendicular line of its direction. But in fact, neither of these makes for common sense unless the rules have been rewritten to remove reference to hitting in the outfield and passing a base to stating that it must pass a diagonal between 1st and 3rd. If the umpires have by consensus changed the meaning of the words, then to be fair to all who play the game the written rules should also be changed.
The DH violates the very first rule of baseball.Lord Vader said:First, I never said the ball HIT second base then rolled back foul. Second, the ruling I gave does not contradict the rule book, and even if it did, so what? Baseball's rule book is filled with contradictory rulings, rulings that completely go against each other. That is why we have official interpretations. Third, get rid of this "perpendicular" line to which you refer. It has no bearing on this. One must think of the diagonal of the square. A ball that has gone past that line is fair. Period.
P.S. Stop thinking like a scientist. That's what got the darn "Global Warming" thread closed.
Yes, under OBR, that is correct. The rationale behind this interpretation is because the ball can't go "past" the first or third base bag, in the way we think of the word "past" unless it somehow is near it. So, the interp. became that at SOME point the ball had to be considered fair if it goes into the infield and was far enough to essentially have passed first or third; hence this diagonal of the square being the demarcation point.DodgerKing said:Using Geometers Sketchpad, I created an infield. I drew a blue diagonal line from 1st to 3rd base. What you are saying is that once the ball passes that blue segment, the ball is automatically fair and if it crosses into foul territory before it crosses the blue segment I drew, it is a foul ball.
He is out because once he rounds second, he is now on his own. After he is awarded 2nd base, he can then advance on his own. Since he was thrown out after he touched second base, he is out.tj177mmi said:Play 1: As soon as the balk is called, the play is blown dead and anything after that doesn't happen. R1 is awarded 2nd base and is NOT out.
Yet the DH is itself a rule.DodgerKing said:The DH violates the very first rule of baseball.