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Dish AutoHop vs Networks Commercial Skipping Discussion

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by phrelin, May 15, 2012.

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  1. phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Using the concept of legal and illegal in this context is weird. It isn't like someone is sharing a movie and others are downloading and watching it without paying.

    Everyone in the chain from the content producer through the network through the local channel through Dish is getting paid by me in the form of a retransmission fee plus extra for Dish.

    The issue is somebody feels slighted because I skip commercials. And yet, nobody would care if I skip the content to watch commercials. I'm not obligated to watch anythnig just because it appears on my DVR. How can I be obligated to watch commercial under threat of prosecution?
     
  2. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    @ james long

    • I have never said SkipHop was illegal, nor immoral, and certainly not fattening!

    • I like SkipHop, and give credit to Dish for innovation.

    • The differences I outlined, and you refined in how it currently works, are important to me, perhaps because I want to see most commercials, once. Some several times.

    • Dish could manually insert markers into Hoppers Prime time network recording after the fact, that would make precise start and end of commercial runs. The'd have several hours to do this. I am not saying they are doing it or will do it, just that it could be done.
     
  3. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Laxguy, not every word in every post is intended to rebuke you. There are others in this thread who need rebuke and you should not read every word as directed at you.

    BTW: DISH has a name for their feature, it is called "AutoHOP". I'm not sure if they could use that name on non Hopper receivers (should the feature be expanded to other DISH DVRs) since they are not Hoppers - but AutoHOP does hop commercials so the name could be used.
     
  4. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    I am less concerned about being wrongly rebuked than gaining understanding, so 'buke away!

    My name for the feature is HopSkip®, but not jump, and I understand that Dish likes "AutoHOP"! My term is more playful, and incorporates part of the word "Hopper". Anyone on DBSTalk may use my term for free. :confused: but I will have to charge if used out of this arena. :nono:
     
  5. RasputinAXP

    RasputinAXP Kwisatz Haderach of Cordcuttery

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    Don't confuse the noobs, Laxguy. Just call it auto hop.
     
  6. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Wouldn't that be "AutoHop®"? :D Dang, two rebukes in one thread..... I was just funnin' anyhow, but I will try to be carefuller.
     
  7. Marlin Guy

    Marlin Guy Hall Of Fame

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    Now I'm confused. :eek:
     
  8. jdskycaster

    jdskycaster Legend

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    I have it, use it and it is not always exact. At times there are a couple seconds of a commercial sometimes it is a clean break.
     
  9. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    I've decided I"m going to call a lacrosse stick a "laracket" because it looks more like a racket than a stick. ;)
     
  10. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Your not seeing it like me. Dish is the one choosing the starting points and ending points of the skipping with auto hop. No other device that records tv has ever done that. The customer has always had to at least choose the starting point, and aside from a couple vcrs back in the day (which were not owned and crated by a provider by the way, which also is relevant) and replaytv, also chooses the ending point of the skipping or fast forwarding. That is completely different.

    My big thing is that it's different and therefore they are messing with copyrights which say the provider can not alter what the viewer sees, only the viewer can determine what they do and don't see.

    I don't think in any way shape or form anything to come out of this will affect any other trickplay abilities in anyone's machines, including dishes. I am not at all concerned about that.

    And they are editing what you see on screen, rather than making you edit what you see onscreen. I find it amazing that people think even though the user has to hit the button that no one seems to understand that dish is the one determining what parts of the program to skip. Dish and no one else.
     
  11. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Again, you are making a mistake. It's not the same as a customer hitting skip or ffwd, because dish is deciding what part of the program is skipped.

    Maybe everyone needs to look at it from further back to see my point. Don't think of it as skipping commercials, it's skipping part of a program. I think that's the biggest issue. No one seems to think that commercials are part of the program, and there fore don't count as part of the program and can be skipped by dish doing something automated. But the truth is they are a part of the program every bit as much as the scripted show you are interested in seeing.
     
  12. jdskycaster

    jdskycaster Legend

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    ^So is it pure coincidence then that the parts Dish determines I do not see exactly match up to those parts that I do not want to see?

    Furthermore, how much of the ad would autohop have to display in order for it to be an ok technology from your point of view? 1second, 2seconds, 3seconds? What if autohop showed 2 seconds of every commercial it was skipping over? Would that make any difference in you mind?

    How about if I had to shake the remote 3 times at the beginning of a commercial in order to skip? What if I had to jump up and down with the remote in my hand every time a commercial comes on and then I do not have to view the ad. There is a good reason why I do not see it like you do.
     
  13. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Wow! (You've posted that before, no?)

    The truth is that only you seem to maintain that commercials are "part of the program". Perhaps network legal types will try to promulgate that, but few others.
     
  14. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Your not obligated to watch it, but dish is obligated to not choose what parts of it should be shown to you in lineal format either, and auto hop changes the lineal presentation according to dishes standards, not the viewers, regardless if the viewers ask dish to do it or not.
     
  15. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    James, do you know if it works on dish the same way replaytv did it on theirs, from a technical standpoint?
     
  16. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    If your asking me, there is no amount of time the commercial would have to show before they skipped all of them. It's not about them skipping commercials, it's about them deciding start and end points and skipping any part of the program based on their determinations of where to start and stop the skipping.

    I still believe if they had simply set it up so the skip button when pressed would skip to the end of a commercial break, whenever pressed, they wouldn't have any issues. In that scenario, while they are still determining the end point, they are not also determining the start point. The user is. That is in the same class as a 30 second skip, or jumping to bookmarks created by the user, or even ffwd.

    I know people hate that I see the distinction, but there is one because without deciding the beginning and the ending points both of skipping part of the programing, they aren't the ones altering the program, the user is.
     
  17. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Are the commercials not supplied by the broadcaster to the provider as part of the right to carry a program? Then it is part of the program. If not, then the provider is the one who would be selling all the commercials, not the broadcaster.
     
  18. patmurphey

    patmurphey Godfather

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    Inkahauts, looking at your signature, your assertions appear to to be just wishful thinking by a DTV advocate. Did you notice that your not getting much agreement here?
     
  19. Marlin Guy

    Marlin Guy Hall Of Fame

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    And they are delivered to the DVR the same way yours are.
    The only difference is that Dish made skipping them easier.
    Once again, COMPLETELY at the discretion of the viewer as whether they choose to use the feature or not.
     
  20. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    That’s not true. I had a Panasonic VCR that automatically skipped commercials (it was called Commercial Advance). As part of the recording timer we’d choose the skip option and when it was done recording it would rewind and then “mark” the start and stop times of the commercials. Then we would hit play, put the remote down, and the VCR detected the "marks" and skips over the commercials without any action by us. Identical to how AutoHop works now. ;)

    Mike
     
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