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Dish AutoHop vs Networks Commercial Skipping Discussion

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by phrelin, May 15, 2012.

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  1. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

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  2. phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    Only Dish customers with Hoppers can automatically skip commercials. What Dish wants is folks who are not currently Dish customers. They can't automatically skip commercials.;)
     
  3. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    Which could be several years down the road, with the only winners being the lawyers.
     
  4. lacruz

    lacruz Legend

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    Another Dish Lawsuit = Price Increases. The customer is always left paying Charlie's lawyers. The customers will be the losers here, regardless of the outcome, our rates will go up.
     
  5. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Exactly... thus the irony. Dish will have a hard time arguing that commercials have no value when they are themselves advertising... so they are kind of undercutting their own defense because the networks will claim Dish AutoHop eliminates commercials that their advertisers paid for assuming viewers would at least have a chance of watching.

    Dish clearly recognizes value in advertising or they wouldn't be making commercials of their own and buying spots on networks. Would Dish pay as much for those spots if DirecTV and cable customers had their own "AutoHop" feature such that Dish commercials might never be seen?

    The answer to that question will undercut Dish's stance on defending AutoHop.
     
  6. Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

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    While there were a few tmes it was over the top... it is a lot better then the Toyota ones on Bones.

    Community by design is an over the top, and purposely does that... as does Pawn Stars (With Subway).
     
  7. djpadz

    djpadz Cool Member

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    Wasn't this battle already fought and lost over a decade ago with ReplayTV's commercial-skip feature?
     
  8. 356B

    356B Icon

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    Northern...
    And the only real losers will be the subscribers.
    There is no way the networks didn't know this was in the works. If one was a paranoid, conspiracy type you might deduct this is a capitalist plot to raise the price of programing.
    The posturing is just that, the refusal to runs ads for Dish is stupid, revenue is revenue, these guys would take ads from the Devil if they thought they could pull if off. No this is about big money and Dish's stock was up today in a down Nasdaq market...this ain't no FB deal. What fun...!
     
  9. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    I don't see them saying they have no value, only that the viewer should be able to choose whether to watch them or not. I choose not to, even without a 'spensive 'Roo contraption.
     
  10. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

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  11. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Users can already choose not to watch commercials by DVRing and skipping them OR by closing their eyes or getting up and going to the bathroom.

    The AutoHop feature, however, is different since it lets the user press a button once and skip all commercials for the duration of that program without further interaction.

    Using the Manual skipping method means you actually still watch snippets of commercials in order to find where to start watching your program again... whereas AutoHop ensures you see none of the commercials.

    That's why AutoHop is different and why the networks are complaining. Nobody can make you watch commercials, but until now there was no automated way to easily skip all of the commercials with one press of a button.

    IF this feature wins, customers might be temporarily happy... but networks will not be able to sell commercials anymore and then the cost of programming (and channels) will go up OR those channels and programs will go away.

    I don't think people understand just how much of the programming they like exists because of commercial revenue to the networks.
     
  12. jdskycaster

    jdskycaster Legend

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    You are trying to say that time shifting and using the skip button is somehow different but fundamentally it is not. In the end you are still skipping the ad. I am sure advertisers do think in terms of how effective their ad is based on a consumer viewing 1 or 2 seconds of it:rolleyes:

    The argument that ad revenues will be lost forever was already put forth and proven wrong when the DVR first hit the streets and became wildly popular. The truth is it (VCR,DVR,TIVO etc) has had ZERO effect on ad revenues.
     
  13. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

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  14. cypherx

    cypherx Hall Of Fame

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    Ugh, just knew this was going to happen. If the networks win, wouldn't that make ad block plugins for web browsers illegal?

    Interesting the networks use terminology like copyright violation, unlawful, unauthorized modification, etc...

    Thing is nothing is modified. AFAIK the transport stream is copied bit for bit from whats uplinked by the networks. Copyright violation? That would make all DVR's illegal. Unauthorized modification? To what? The end user makes a conscious decision to turn the feature on, and even then they can't use it until the next day. All it does is automate the 30skip / FF or whatever I would be normally doing on DirecTV, Comcast, or whoever.

    Oh and what about the retrans fee's that keep going up every single year?
     
  15. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    IMHO, this is just plain bad for the subscriber. If they can't show their commercials on a particular service providers DVR then they charge that providers more to carry their channels...higher bills for us. I don't like where this is going.

    Mike
     
  16. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

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    It would be a large jump to ad blockers so I wouldn't worry about that plus this is going to take years to resolve (See Tivo vs Echostar).

    I would be more concerned with other things. Networks get an injunction to stop autoskip, PTAT, Sling, they pull services completely, or they refuse to allow new contracts to take place during this litigation. While those are extremes they're certainly not FUD at this time.
     
  17. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    You and many others keep missing the difference.

    There's a huge difference between you throwing away junk mail and your mailman not delivering it to you in the first place!

    You recording and skipping commercials manually is no different than using the bathroom or going to get a snack. This is largely why the DVR and trick play features won out because they can't make you watch anything you don't want to watch.

    AutoHop is a whole new ball of wax. AutoHop gives you the ability to disable all commercials in a given program with the press of one button.

    Now... they don't know whether or not I watch any commercials ever... but with AutoHop they know I don't even have a chance.

    If you were an advertiser, how much money would you pay for an ad that you know people aren't watching because they can disable commercials entirely?

    Your boss doesn't know if you goof off at work sometimes... maybe your lunch hour is a lunch 75 minutes some days... but IF you put a big sign up announcing your mid-day absence then you can bet your boss takes notices.

    AutoHop is a big sign saying "no commercials here"... which is way more definitive than maybe customers skip and maybe they don't. AutoHop is definitely they do.

    That's the difference.

    Dish is paying for Hopper commercials. Can you imagine how mad Dish would be if they paid NBC for a 30-second commercial spot and then NBC doesn't air it? Yeah, maybe no one watches it... but they can't watch it if it isn't on.

    Dish implementing AutoHop is a world of difference to you skipping commercials yourself.

    I know people think commercials are evil... but do you want every channel to cost as much as HBO does? That would be where we would be headed IF commercial TV goes away.

    Complain all you want, but I'd rather the networks and advertisers "think" I might be watching their commercials so they will keep funding the programming so all my networks don't cost $15-$20 each like the premium channels.
     
  18. Renard

    Renard Godfather

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    Do you think Directv will do it as well?
    I hope YES BIG TIME.
     
  19. Marlin Guy

    Marlin Guy Hall Of Fame

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    They'll wait and see how the innovator comes out legally, and then copy the genius.
     
  20. TheRatPatrol

    TheRatPatrol Hall Of Fame

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    I really hope this isn't the beginning to the end of skipping ads altogether.
     
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