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Dish & Direct tv--Any signal or Picture difference?

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by spummerr, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. tampa8

    tampa8 Godfather/Supporter

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    That's stating the obvious and not my point. I said in my original post there is a difference it's seeing it that counts. I provided a well regarded link that has charts and text that explains it. Most people do not sit at the recommended distance they sit further away. When you do that the difference of 720p to 1080p vanishes. Any talk that you can still see some difference is incorrect including any motion difference. (You CAN see motion differences between interlaced and progressive - a different discussion)

    When I said reasonable in my subsequent post I meant being 100' isn't required to where the difference no longer exists, but even at a reasonable distance, distances most are watching from.
    Since you mention ISF, resolution isn't even in the top three things that makes a picture better to the human eye.

    I know people don't like facts getting in the way of opinion, but Smartphones were brought up in the discussion as being able to see better resolution. Well the same applies, hold it just a little away and any improvement of 1080 over 720 goes away. In fact even at normal viewing distances it's very iffy that you can see a difference. Here's another link about it. Often in smaller screens it's the technology that improved rather than it just being resolution.

    http://bgr.com/2012/10/19/1080p-smartphone-criticism-raymond-soneira-displaymate/
     
  2. sregener

    sregener Godfather

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    There isn't enough bandwidth to do 1080p properly with the 6Mhz channels the FCC had to work with. 1080i at 30fps should use 18Mpbs in MPEG2 to provide a sharp, detailed picture. That happens to be the exact payload of a 6Mhz channel. But the FCC decided not to require broadcasters to have only a single channel in that 6Mhz stream to help offset the tremendous costs involved in transitioning to digital. Stations had to purchase new antennas, new encoders, even new towers in many cases. And for those moving from VHF to UHF, their power bills jumped pretty high, too. They had to offset the cost somehow, and multicasting/datacasting was seen as a way to keep broadcast stations viable. It's a compromise, and I can't see it as being a horrible one. After all, it's just television.
     
  3. sregener

    sregener Godfather

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    One man's reasonable is another man's too small. It didn't take me very long to figure out sitting closer to the television had the same effect as buying a bigger one and viewing at the same difference.

    People don't change their habits over time. Most people still sit at a distance where NTSC looks sharp. But they buy 80" televisions, and then sit 15' away from them. Makes no sense.

    Of course, there's plenty that makes a picture look better. In fact, if you want a sharper picture, the best bang for your buck is to upgrade your audio system. Studies have proven that the picture is perceived as being better if the sound is better.
     
  4. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    I'm curious where/how you two come to the conclusion that most people sit very far away from their screens....?
     
  5. paja

    paja Godfather

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    My thought exactly
     
  6. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Allen, TX
    As of 2011, Dimensions Guide estimates that the average living room is a 16-by-16-foot square.

    Read more: http://www.ehow.com/info_8574543_average-dimensions-living-room.html#ixzz2XFwafEab


    I guess tampa assumes "most" people are sitting 15-16 feet away?????
     
  7. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    I can tell you I sit about 8-12 feet away from out 55 " depending on what couch I'm sitting on. I would bet most people sit about 6-10 feet away from their TVs
     
  8. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    There isn't enough bandwidth to do 1080p properly with the 6Mhz channels the FCC had to work with. 1080i at 30fps should use 18Mpbs in MPEG2 to provide a sharp, detailed picture. That happens to be the exact payload of a 6Mhz channel. But the FCC decided not to require broadcasters to have only a single channel in that 6Mhz stream to help offset the tremendous costs involved in transitioning to digital. Stations had to purchase new antennas, new encoders, even new towers in many cases. And for those moving from VHF to UHF, their power bills jumped pretty high, too. They had to offset the cost somehow, and multicasting/datacasting was seen as a way to keep broadcast stations viable. It's a compromise, and I can't see it as being a horrible one. After all, it's just television.


    I didn't say get rid of Multicasting I said get rid if this Hi Definition as multi casting at the same time. And who says they couldn't change the channel bandwidth while they were at it?

    They basically said let's fit the new system into the same constraints as the old system as much as possible instead if throwing it all out the window and starting over. They could probably do 1080p in mpeg 4 today for over the air and be fine.
     
  9. Orion9

    Orion9 Legend

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    I'm not sure what doesn't make sense about that, but maybe I don't understand what you are saying... We used to have an NTSC set that was appropriate to the viewing distance. The viewing distance is pretty well fixed by the room design unless you do things that seem quite strange from a furniture/foot traffic/appearance standpoint. When we got HD, we calculated the screen size based on the new resolution for the same(ish) viewing distance. So, the screen got a lot bigger and the distance increased slightly due to the thinner screen. Does that make sense?

    One of the big questions, of course, was whether to make this calculation for 1080, 720, or gasp, to even consider a size that wouldn't leave our DVD collection looking awful.

    We went more mid-range because we hate spending a lot of money on the best display only to find ourselves complaining about the source material.
     
  10. sregener

    sregener Godfather

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    Did you pay attention during the transition to digital? The FCC had nightmares trying to even provide a second digital channel to all the stations in some markets, and there was lots of interference and overlap. Now that each station only has one channel again, there isn't any room for more bandwidth. To do what you proposed the FCC would not only have had to provide a second channel, but a whole second broadcast spectrum separate from the first. Flash-cut was never an option.

    It's true that they could go MPEG4 today, and they can do that for their secondary channels. But absent a large installed base of tuners, such a move would bankrupt the industry. Such is always the danger of adopting a standard in the digital age - a better standard is always just around the corner. I don't see the government doing a second round of tuner box giveaways...
     
  11. sregener

    sregener Godfather

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    Even at 1080i recommended distances, my DVD collection doesn't look awful, with perhaps the exception of non-widescreen enhanced titles.
     
  12. Rduce

    Rduce Legend

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    I personally cannot see any difference in either. I have Dish and a friend has Direct. He says he can see a slightly better look in HD on Direct, but says Dish's SD look much better. Of course we do not have the same TV sets and like I said, I cannot see any difference.
     
  13. Orion9

    Orion9 Legend

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    With a somewhat smaller screen size, we've kept ours to maybe "poor" or "substandard", but usually better than awful. If they look too bad, we shrink them to use only part of the screen. We're definitely not buying any more DVDs.
     
  14. Grandude

    Grandude RichardParker II

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    I sit 11 feet away from my 52" and 2.5 feet away from my 24" and 26" TV/PC monitors. The apparent picture size is approximately the same but usually watch one of the PC TVs unless there are two programs, football or races, that I want to watch.

    I'm a victim of room dimensions and would sit a lot closer to the 52" if practical.
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    Newfoundland...
    Me too our living room is 18x22 we have one couch about 12 feet away while the other is about 8 and we have a 55". I think it works well enough though, I doubt I would ever buy a bigger tv.
     
  16. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    W.Mdtrn Sea
    Rooms, sizes, etc ... We got a lot of info but still derailing the topic.

    :backtotop:
     
  17. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    The topic itself might be condensed as follows:

    1.) Yes, there's an empirical difference; Dish sends out a lower resolution signal.

    2.) A number of people deny 1.)

    3.) A number of people say there's maybe a tiny difference, but that they can't see it.

    4.) A number of people say there's a tiny difference they can see.

    5.) Yet another number say there's a noticeable difference that doesn't bother them.

    6.) Still others say the difference is great and they wouldn't be caught dead with a lower resolution.

    Did I leave anyone out?

    Oh, yeah, those who don't give a fusty whatever either way, and those with SD, and those who are unaware there are two satellite providers, and .....

    Sooooo, discussions on viewing differences and perceptions thereof are pretty relevant.
     
  18. inazsully

    inazsully Icon

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    Oct 3, 2006
    I really see no difference between the HD PQ on "D" compared to "E". Everything is always in the eye of the beholder so my eye beholding is all that matters to me. When we talk about room size I asked my wife what she thought about room size and viewing distance. Her reply was very much on point in the real world. Your furniture placement in relation to your TV placement (distance) is often based on how well the totality of the room looks. Furniture too close or too far away looks unnatural. We all must admit to a certain degree of vanity and since we very much care how we look to other people we also care about how our (home) furniture looks in any particular room. So says the wife. Never argue with the boss.
     
  19. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    Newfoundland...
    Um talking about viewing differences is on topic. The distance one sits from their tv is on topic since it refers to the how once could view Dish Networks and directvs HD.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. gov

    gov Legend

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    Jan 11, 2013

    Left out those of with both services that love having both!

    Really, MORE of you need to be doing this!



    :coffee
     

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