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DISH Misses, Subscriber Loss Soars

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by Hoosier205, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. DodgerKing

    DodgerKing Hall Of Fame

    Apr 28, 2008
    If you want to see you local team playing in HD for the whole game, like they do on every other provider, then it is a significant (yes, west coast games are still JIP'd quite often).

    If you want to watch you local sports programming in HD, like you can on every other provider, then it is a big deal.

    Of course, if sports are not that important to you, then of course it will not be significant to said person.
  2. DodgerKing

    DodgerKing Hall Of Fame

    Apr 28, 2008
    Not if that channel is the only source for you to watch your favorite event
  3. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

    Jun 6, 2009

    Depends on the amounts involved. If you have 2 million customers where you're only netting $5 or $10/mo and another million customers where you're netting $20-25/mo, you can easily afford to lose the 2 million less profitable customers since the costs of equipment and delivery will be similar for both groups.
  4. Gloria_Chavez

    Gloria_Chavez Godfather

    Aug 11, 2008
    Over the last 3 months, Dish's stock price has decreased 22%, while DTV's down 13%. Nasdaq is down about 1% over the same period.

    If you glance at the 2Q11 financial and operational results of PayTv providers, they're all taking a hit. Even DTV's gross ads in the US were significantly below expectations.

    That said, I believe that Dish's strategy is the correct one. It's positioning itself as the lower-priced non-sports DTV provider. In a recessionary environment, this may be optimal.
  5. Gloria_Chavez

    Gloria_Chavez Godfather

    Aug 11, 2008
    Should read, Nasdaq is down about 13% during same period.
  6. satjay

    satjay AllStar

    Nov 20, 2006
    I think I have read recently though that Dish in the future does not want to position themselves as the low cost alternative
  7. Gloria_Chavez

    Gloria_Chavez Godfather

    Aug 11, 2008
    Dish would never admit as much. Instead, it'd say, "We provide more Value than our Others," or something like that.

    Point is, something gotta give. Over the last decade, median income has been stagnant, while PayTv carriers continue to increase rates at 5%, at least, every year. For awhile, subscribers cut back on other purchases while still paying for PayTv.

    No longer the case.

    Moreover, the PayTv industry has got to come to terms with the fact that many recent gainfully-employed college grads no longer see PayTv as necessary. Comedy Central gives you Colbert and Jon Stewart, and you can buy Mad Men from Amazon.

    Of course, if you're a die hard sports fan, you do need to go to DirecTv.
  8. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

    Jun 6, 2009

    Once again, it's not the carriers, it's the providers and producers. I'm sure Dish would love to give us 300 commercial-free channels in HD for $30/mo if the providers and producers weren't upping the ante every year. I'll never understand why a local broadcast station should be allowed to demand any money at all from the carriers.
  9. dare2be

    dare2be Cool Member

    Jul 24, 2008
    Not just broadcast channels, but all cable/subscription channels as well. Remember back in the day, cable channels got the majority of their revenue from subscription fees, and had limited commercials. Now, most of them are just as commercial-ridden as broadcast networks. More of the popular channels should be bidding and PAYING the carriers for the privilege of being on a lower, cheaper tier, which gives them more subscribers which translates to more potential viewership, and thus higher ratings and higher advertising rates = more revenue.

    This would in turn lower the carriers' package prices to consumers, drive up carrier subscribers, increasing viewership...etc etc etc.

    I just don't understand.
  10. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    Nov 15, 2005
    The real number you want to define is already there. Churn. It takes into account the relative sizes of the companies.

    Dish did have a much better quarter in 2011 than 2010. They churned only 1.67% versus 1.78%. That is one of your key points, and is relatively good news.

    Unfortunately they are losing net customers. Fortunately they are gaining APRU. Alas, their SAC grew 7%.

    Bottom lines: Profit. But long term net losses still hurt. Earnings per share up. (Very good.)

  11. normang

    normang Icon

    Nov 14, 2002
    It works for Apple because they have quality from the top to bottom... Its will never be perfect, but Apple's gear lasts far longer than any PC I've ever had..
  12. Matt9876

    Matt9876 Hall Of Fame

    Oct 11, 2007
    I've been with Dish HD for about two years now and for the most part pleased with the service, I do have a few suggestions that I would like to pass on to improve the service.

    When channel surfing or typing in the wrong channel number it is easy to get stuck in the information page of a channel, typing in a valid channel number gets you nowhere and the only way out is to channel up or down till you get to an active video/audio feed.

    This is just wrong, the unit needs to respond immediately to a valid channel number input/request.

    The two interactive channels that never do anything scream "cheap cheap", also the non functioning games and other items on the eastern arc interactive channel page give the same impression of second class.

    If Dish wants to up their image above the low cost provider either make the extra stuff work correctly or remove it from view.

    Also a 211 unit connected to the internet should do more than just allow pay per views and report viewing habits, it seems to me it would be an easy way to fix the missing games and allow real interactive content.
  13. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

    Mar 18, 2008
    Loss of customers is going to result in stagnant profit or reduced profit depending on the time frame. People want to see growth continously for stock to move. People invest to make a profit so they demand that the stock moves upwards. This will not happen with the way DISH posts quarterly results.

    As an investor I am concerned with the fact that they are not attempting to fix their major problem which is a large lack of image. If DISH knows what it wants to be then they haven't let anyone else know.

    A customer who pays a bill is a customer none the less. If they leave in 2 years you still made a profit on them and they contributed to the bottom line for 2 years. What's more important is that they didn't help your competition as well.

    Most people in this thread are looking at it as my provider has a larger e-peen than your provider. I look at it from the investment side and really these results do nothing to make me want to invest or reassure any investment I might have.

    So dish can keep their current setup. They will deffinately stay in business and continue to make money. They won't however have an easy time recruiting high end management from the outside or have an easy time making new shareholders happy. The only reason there hasn't been major changes already is because Charlie is the majority share holder who can't be out voted, at least last I saw, so therefor shareholders don't really have much of a voice.
  14. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    Nov 15, 2005

    I agree with most of your points. The only one I'm going to slightly quibble with is attracting quality managerial staff. If (always the biggest word in the dictionary) Dish wanted to signal a change in direction, they could find turnaround specialists or attract managerial people who want that kind of challenge. Charlie and the board would have to be convincing in their story, yet it certainly could be done.

    Now, if Dish isn't interested in changing the direction and image, then I agree with you on even this point.

  15. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

    Jun 14, 2003
    Salem, OR
    Pee Cee equipment that costs anywhere near what Apple gets for their equipment will likely last as long or longer. Apple builds disposable devices too.
  16. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    Apr 17, 2003
    It seems odd. Mr Ergen started a successful business that turns a fair profit. Investors gave him some money to work with and the current stockholders are along for the ride. IF (that big word) the random stockholders were to take control of the company could they do better? Or would they run it into the ground for their own short term gains, making decisions then getting out before taking the full consequences of their actions?

    Mr Ergen and the other founders are there for life. They have a long term if not lifetime commitment to the company. They certainly don't want to see their baby fail any more than a short term investor but they are looking at a much bigger picture.

    That being said, this has been a year of change for DISH Network as Mr Ergen is no longer CEO. There is another person at the reigns of the business, one who does not have the same history and outlook. We will likely see changes to operations that may or may not make us, as customers, happy.

    I'm hoping for the best ... fill the gaps in HD programming (sports) and try to get away from the "cheap" or "bargain basement" image. Fixing all the other random problems with the service would be a bonus. But #1 (even though I am not a stockholder) is remain profitable. Profitability keeps a company in business. Running the company into the ground to "make customers happy" is a short term proposition.
  17. BNUMM

    BNUMM Hall Of Fame

    Dec 23, 2006
    I don't understand the concern about Dish losing customers in a bad economy. Once the economy gets better Dish will start making gains. I am not a Dish or DirecTv fan even though I have had both. Now that I have high speed internet at a reasonable cost I am thinking about going back to SkyAngel. They have all the channels I want for $24/month.
  18. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    Jan 7, 2005
    Kittrell, NC
    Making shareholders happy is often not the best way to run a business.

    IF you make your customers happy... and you make a profit... then that is a good business.

    But shareholders press for "growth"... and the thing is, not all companies need to grow all the time in order to be a success.

    Think of football... In the 4th quarter, when your team is ahead by at least a touchdown... they don't continue to throw down the field for a big gain and risk an interception, fumble, or turnover on downs... instead, they go for short gains to keep moving the chains and run out the clock.

    IF a football game were ran by shareholders (fans) instead of coaches... they would push to keep running up the score and posting big gains... which sometimes would result in interceptions ran back the other way and losing the game.

    Stocks also are almost never an indication of value of a company... but rather what people think the value ought to be... and stocks end up like comic books and other collectibles... worth whatever someone is willing to pay to own... so stocks can rise on an unprofitable company while falling on a profitable company.

    At the end of the day... if you have 14 million customers and are making a profit... it's hard to say too much negative in this economy. I have yet to see a downward trend that spells doom for Dish.
  19. Gloria_Chavez

    Gloria_Chavez Godfather

    Aug 11, 2008
    Well said. I would not be shocked if Charlie & Co. take DISH private over the next year. The company is generating enough free cash flow to service debt, and it could innovate so much easier as a private company, relative to quarterly strategy disclosures.

    Personally, i do believe that sports programming is so expensive that it's hurting the ability of PayTV carriers to offer reasonably-priced packages.
  20. jwktiger05

    jwktiger05 Cool Member

    Jul 31, 2011
    - I'd rather keep Dish public as I'd like to buy stock :) eventually; that being said if going private helps the business then that's what they should do.

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