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Discussion in 'DISH™ High Definition Discussion' started by JohnH, Jan 7, 2008.
good post above me....
James, we've heard this before, back when D* announced their plans for HD. The E* folks were all saying there wasn't even 50 HD channels so who cares if you have capacity for channels that don't exist. Guess we'll have to wait until the end of 2008 and see if there's HD channels out there that customers want but can't get because there isn't the capacity to carry them.
There's HD channels out there RIGHT NOW that customers want but can't get, and it's not a capacity issue!
Geez, how hard would it be to light up SCI-Fi HD before Battlestar Galactica resumes in late March/early April?
I quit setting goalposts with Dish a long time ago. I've learned to take how long it should take, double it, add six months, and be prepared wait even longer.
I was watching SG Atlantis last night, and a bug popped up "This program is available in HD -- contact your provider." Yeah -- great idea! That will do a lot of good.
Guess what happened between DirecTV's announcement and the end of 2007? Time passed. Enough time that real HD channels actually came to market. Unfortunately there have also been a lot of "upconvert" channels added with limited HD content.
The "upconvert" channels are an issue ... when one tunes in and there isn't HD there or there is fake HD (stretch-o-vision) it can be annoying. But there are some programming gems on those channels. (This put down applies to channels E* carries as well as the ones yet to be carried.)
There are now around 70 national channels in HD (or upconverted to HD). How many of those existed a year ago? Six months ago? It has been a good year for additions but it needs to be another good year for "100" national HD channels to be on either system.
Probably as hard as it was to NOT get it before Razor and Tin man aired....also as hard as it was to NOT get speed before Daytona.
I have stopped thinking that they are waiting for big show releases, to light up a channel....they just simply don't have something going, whether the capacity, or Charlies negotiation tactics....regardless, in the end...customer satisfaction on the HD programming front is obviously not a concern for them.
The only add that I see as content related was when TBS forced their way on the system for HD baseball coverage. Not funny.
Otherwise they add when they add. We still have a couple of days left in the month. The signals and bandwidth is there on all three "HD satellites". Why these channels are not on is a mystery.
James, please make up your mind which argument you are going to use. In the post I was responding to you said "Capacity is irrelevant if the channels do not exist." in response to my question about E* still not being able to keep up to D* with their 150 channel capacity in 2008 (assuming D11 goes active). So what's to say that between now and the EOY that more HD channels are added that E* won't be able to carry since they have said only 100 channels for 2008?
And please provide a clear definiton of 'a lot' in reference to your upconvert point. D* has 7 channels that could fit that defintion (and why don't you list the channels you classify as that) since no HD has been seen on them, which compared to the total number of HD channels that D* carries IMHO is not 'a lot'.
You are misquoting DISH. They plan to have 100 channels by the end of the year ... not 100 channel capacity but 100 channels.
What is to say that there will be more than 100 channels available? Providers have been slow in adding their HD channels. You seem to be in the "if you build it (capacity) they will come (channels)" camp. So where are the channels with more than token HD on them?
I'll let someone else (someone with DirecTV service) answer the channel list question: "DirecTV offers a number of “HD” channels, which show no actual high definition content. Some of the channels which are advertised as being HD yet have not shown a single bit of true HD content include Cartoon Network HD, Comedy Central HD, Nick HD, MTV HD, CMT HD, VH1 HD, among others."
Comedy Central HD is an error (since D* doesn't carry it). Are the other channels listed part of the seven you admit to? (Not counting "low HD" channels such as TBS & TNT that are often the target of complaints.)
This isn't a D* vs E* battle ... so don't take it there from here. This is a question of whether "HD" channels are in HD and a prediction of how many HD channels there will be by the end of the year.
It is your opinion that the "few" channels in fake HD are not "a lot". I disagree. About a dozen low HD channels out of about 70 national channels is a lot ... especially when people fixate on low HD channels when complaining about what is "missing". The "low HD" channels are the centerpiece of the argument for adding more HD. That makes them more important ... even if not more in number ... than the true HD channels few are complaining about.
If you want to get into some silly definitions debate of what "a lot" is go elsewhere. This is a discussion about E* and future HD ... don't get too far off track.
Actually... to borrow TBS' own phrase and turn it on themselves...
TBS-HD... VERY funny!
There is no need for a D* vs E* battle right now anyway....D* has a number of the channels that the E* subs have been complaining about....until E* figures out how to add the new channels....a battle would be pointless.
OK lets check out the 100 HD channels by EOY 2008. Currently E* advertises on their web site that they have 74 national HD channels, so they have to add 26 channels to reach that number by the EOY. Currently D* has the following HD channels that E* doesn't have, Bravo, Biography, FX, MGM, SciFi, Smithsonian, Spike, USA, CNN, CNBC, Fox Business, Weather Channel, Cinemax West, HBO West, Movie Channel, Showtime West, Showtime Too, Starz Comedy, Starz Edge, Starz Kids and Family, Speed, Tennis, that's 23 channels that DO carry HD programming that E* does not carry now that they would have to if they wanted to match D*'s HD programming. On new HD channels coming this year, HBO announced their entier suite of channels will be available in HD by end of 2nd quarter 2008, http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6451493.html, and out of those D* has commited to carrying a total of 10 of which they carry 4 now so that means they'll carry 6 more so right there if E* will match D*'s HD channels they're over their 100 channels, unless the start to remove some. Disney and D* have also said they will add 4 Disney HD channels in 2008, http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/03/13/directv-to-carry-four-new-hd-disney-owned-channels-in-2008/ , again pushing the channel count over the 100 channel number. Then if the 7 HD channels that D* has now that have shown no HD programming actually start to do HD then that's even more over E*'s 100 channel number.
As for your HD low comment, again you throw a new argument into the discussion to help your side of the debate. Sorry but disagree with your assesment on this, if a channel has only one program in HD that I want to watch then I'm very happy that the HD channel is being made available to me. I think my thinking is in the majority let's wait to see what happens if E* doesn't have SciFi in HD come the time BSG starts up in April. Try to tell those angry folks that it's OK that E* doesn't carry the channel since they only show a few hours of HD per day:lol:
James, if E* does match D*'s HD offerings that's great for all the E* customers. I'm just trying to figure out how E* is going to match D*'s current HD offerings when they say they'll have only 100 national HD channels by EOY and they have 74 now?
Perhaps the only way of getting back on topic is to start over:
What DISH has promised is roughly 24 new HD channels "in 2008" (by the end of the year?) and a lot of local markets (about three times the number of markets).
Even the discussion of whether or not there will be 100 HDs by the end of the year is a side track ... so please don't get too twisted just because I mention that some of those the "76" HD channels on DISH (and some channels they don't carry) are no-HD or low HD channels. It is a question of what is being missed. A couple of good shows on a mostly upconvert channel.
But even including those "low HD" channels in the count, DISH's "76" is padded with PPV channels and non-national RSNs. If you want to see how a count can be padded check out the HD list on my website ... by my count DirecTV already has "109" HD channels (not counting HD locals and RSNs). I don't consider that a reasonable count.
I don't consider DISH's count of "76" reasonable either.
So, on the side topic of "will there be 100 HD channels by the end of 2008" we have a choice ... count REAL HD channels, count real HD channels plus low HD channels, count real HD, low HD and no HD channels, or count everything with a HD label. If we count"everything with a HD label" D* hit 100 channels by the end of 2007. Which brings us down to no HD (the seven you mention) and low HD channels and makes them part of the discussion in this off-topic part of the thread.
If you're really worried about going off topic let's go back to original topic of the thread and figure out which 24/26 channels DISH will be adding to meet their promise. Seven are uplinked now ... DISH can add the premium channels as more space and the channels become available. I believe they can get to 24/26 new channels.
ok.. lets remember that the "low HD " channels that don't currently have a TRUE HD show on , are getting there system ramped up so they can start carrying full HD shows. TBS (just for sake of argument) has verry little HD , but the idea was to get the HD up and working so they could broadcast HD when they wanted to , baseball for this channel.
so soon , when we have 100 HD capable stations, they will be able to play a show in HD when they have it in there inventory, and stretch the rest.
now, with that being said, in the distant future, all channels will be doing "Low HD" in there streams, but lets face it guys, even if they do, we ain't going to see I Love Lucy in HD, just cause it's being broadcasted on an HD channel.
when will everything be low or high HD, only time will tell, and no matter what D*, E* and cable are going to have to work and thow more sats up in the sky to do it, but they will have to do it. even when there is no 100% benefit to it!
Ok. Back on topic.
Haven't you said that 7 of channels are uplinked already? So Dish is nearly a third of the way without a single new satellite? Am I correct that the channels as indicated in EKB are:
USA Network HD USA 9431
Sci-Fi Channel HD SCIFI 9432
The Tennis Channel HD TEMP 9463
MGM HD TEMP 9483
MOJO HD TEMP 9484
Smithsonian HD TEMP 9492
World Fishing Network TEMP 9494
So after they get around to turning these on, they need 17 more to reach their 2008 goal and to solve at least part of the problem of competitive edge even they acknowledge their competitors have. From a marketing expediture standpoint, IMHO it would be money well-spent to keep their financial obligation to VOOM (call it a marketing expense) but temporarily replace those 15 channels with some decent nationals which show programming that gets some Nielson recognition - like FX, BBCA, ABCFamily - or appear to be in demand, like SPEED. By the time the new satellites are up and working, perhaps the programming on the VOOM channels would have changed enough to be interesting for a few weeks.
Aren't they are putting all their future eggs in a terribly risky basket - future statellite launches - when they could be working out some interim solution to retain HD customers who are getting a bit...irritable?
I am truly uneducated regarding the 70 natiional HD channels that DN says they have. Is there a listing of exactly what they are putting into that count somewhere?
I know there is so much argument about all of this, DIRECTV claims 90 or so themselves. but I can only see closer to 75 that are on full time.
Thanks for any list that can be offered to help me understand.
Try here: http://jameslong.name/hdcount.html
As I stated earlier in this thread, I don't consider the count reasonable.
Brand New.. Just wondering if any one knows what happened to the NFL HD? Did it move to a different teir?
NFL moved up to AT 200. you would need to subcribe at least to AT 200 to see its HD counterpart if you are subscrided to HD essentials
It has been posted elsewhere that the delay is the result of contracts. When D* went on their "upgrade" pitch they strong armed many networks to put their label on HD channels. Two I am aware of are SPEED and SciFi. Neither network had any HD equipment to transmit HD programing when their HD channel debuted. D* upconverted the SD signal and passed it through. Alert viewers could see that it was not HD (did the 4:3 letter box and center channel only Dolby Digital give it away?). Others thought they were getting glorious HD (ignorance is bliss).
A contract clause prohibited the new HD networks from selling their "HD" content to other providers before March 2008. Big deal, there was no true HD content. As we watch February 2008 wane, we are much closer to more HD channels that will not carry much HD programming. Do not be surprised if the "more HD" switch is thrown at midnight on March 1st.