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DLB, Wanting is better than Having !!

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by dreadlk, Sep 5, 2009.

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  1. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Two words: Com cials :)

    Oh and another two words: Half time :)
     
  2. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

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    Can't argue there. And, like I say, I enjoy some jumping between 2 games with 30 seconds on the clock at 4:10pm too and the fact that there is a buffer lets me pause or skip back to not miss anything. That's all good. I just wish it did more and that D* didn't make the strange decision to force a user to turn it on/off every day and then force it turn itself off after an arbitrary 2 hour timeframe, that's all.

    BJ
     
  3. tvradio00

    tvradio00 Cool Member

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    Absolutely Correct
     
  4. gitarzan

    gitarzan Godfather

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    Sorry, I haven't read all 18 pages of this discussion. If my question is out of line then please just ignore me. Put me in the camp that DP is fatally flawed for casual user. As a casual user I will likely never think to use it and then when I wish I had DP turned on it probably won't be. But likely all of the posters in this forum are expert DVR users who will likely turn on DP first thing out of habit. This is to me the the seemingly equivelent of 'always on' which seems to be the biggest complaint by users like myself and boltjames. So if DP is activated by the down arrow being pressed twice and the remains on with any remote activity why not just have any remote activity activite DP from the start? This would mean that DP would not have to always be turned on so that maintenance task could occur and it would be on without having to turn it on when you have someone interacting with the DVR.
     
  5. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

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    +1. Dead on. The HR10 was a rich-man's plaything. The HR2X is for the masses. The "casual user" needs to be considered.

    BJ
     
  6. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Does anyone actually watch TV for 2+ hours of no remote pressing, besides maybe a long movie?
     
  7. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

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    The typical NFL game runs 3 hours, a baseball game can run 4, and if you run the audio through a receiver the only button pressing is an occassional up/down on the volume button on a universal remote.

    As a parent, 2 hours can go by pretty quickly. A simple distraction about homework or picking your son up from a friends house can take you away from the TV. So let's say I enable DP, watch 1 hour of programming, WHAM, distraction. I come back to the TV around an hour later and find that the second tuner is gone. That shouldn't happen. This 2 hour timeout is ridiculous.

    BJ
     
  8. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    But what are the odds the second buffer would be on the channel you just happen to want to find DP already buffering? Unless you only watch 2 channels, it will be purely hit or miss.

    I tend to find things to watch live via the guide (premium movies mostly, nearly everything else is recorded--which I find in the guide...) When I want DP, I know that I want to watch and set it up to those two channels.

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  9. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    So then you're not using DP at all... No problem. :)
     
  10. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

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    No one should be using DP. A DVR is meant to let you watch a program without stress while it's backup tuner records the other show you wanted to watch too.

    If I started the Yankee game at 12pm and the Jets game at 1pm, focused on the Jets with my universal remote for just volume, and then at 3pm said "oh yeah, Yanks are on the other channel, let's see what's going on there" I'd have no buffer.

    DP makes the assumption, especially for sports, that you're always jumping back/forth/back/forth which isn't usually the case. You start somewhere, forget about it, get immersed in something else, remember later, and swap tuners.

    There should be no time constraint on "jumping with buffers". There's no reason for it. Is there?

    BJ
     
  11. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    I never turn it on unless I need it. If I need it, I turn it on. Why is that complicated? As I said previously, in almost 10 years of using a DVR, I've never turned on the TV and found a random show on each tuner that I wished I would have been buffering. If there's two shows I want to buffer, I know when they're coming on and I'm ready for it (or I've recorded them).

    The casual user was considered. My wife has no problem with it and uses it occasionally. I found my 6 year old son flipping back between Noggin and Disney last week. He had seen me pressing the down arrows and he tried it. He loved it. Can't get more casual than that.

    You never pause a 3 or 4 hour game? What's the point of having a DVR? Pause it for 30 - 60 minutes, watch something from the list, then come back and watch so you can fast forward through the commercials. I'm pretty confident you've never sat through a 3 or 4 hour game without pausing or checking out the guide or the list during commercials or something else. And if you do sit there staring at the game for 3-4 hours without doing anything else, then a 90 minute buffer sure isn't going to help you whether it's on or not.

    You don't pause the game you're watching to pick up your son from school? Yes, if you watch an hour of TV without pausing or hitting any other button, then you just walk away, again without pausing, for another hour, your buffer will be gone. But guess what, even if the buffer was there, you'd miss at least 30 minutes of the show on the other tuner that you were so worried about.
     
  12. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Um... Please don't tell us how we "should" be using our DVRs. They are meant to enhance both the live viewing experience as well as the recorded viewing experience. Otherwise there'd be no need for ANY buffers.
    DP Doesn't make the assumption--it answers the need for people who do switch back and forth.

    If you hadn't checked on the Yankee game for 2 hours, especially during the long breaks like between quarters and at halftime of the Jets game, you can't say you really were watching the Yankee game. Cuz if you really were watching it--you would have checked far more often. :)

    (Or recorded it.)

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  13. Lodi25

    Lodi25 Legend

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    The buffering thing is not on my DVR's yet! Dose it take this long to get the software update??
     
  14. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

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    spartanstew I never turn it on unless I need it. If I need it, I turn it on. Why is that complicated? As I said previously, in almost 10 years of using a DVR, I've never turned on the TV and found a random show on each tuner that I wished I would have been buffering. If there's two shows I want to buffer, I know when they're coming on and I'm ready for it (or I've recorded them).

    ....and for me, also with 10+ years of DVR experience, I come home from work, find that there's an interesting show in progress, and back-back-back up to catch it from the beginning. It would be great to have the convenience doubled, on two tuners instead of just one.

    The casual user was considered. My wife has no problem with it and uses it occasionally. I found my 6 year old son flipping back between Noggin and Disney last week. He had seen me pressing the down arrows and he tried it. He loved it. Can't get more casual than that.

    That's why there's a "jump" button on the remote. The buffers didn't come into play in your 6 year old's example.

    You never pause a 3 or 4 hour game? What's the point of having a DVR? Pause it for 30 - 60 minutes, watch something from the list, then come back and watch so you can fast forward through the commercials.

    Clearly, you're not a diehard sports fan. The world stops when there's a Yankee, Rangers, or Jets game on in my house. Pause a tied NFL game in the 4th quarter to watch a recording of How I Met Your Mother? You kidding?

    I'm pretty confident you've never sat through a 3 or 4 hour game without pausing or checking out the guide or the list during commercials or something else.

    Think again. Normal viewers, those that aren't DLB/ADD challenged, that's what we do. We're home, we're wearing our jerseys, we've got the chips and dips all laid out, we've got our drinks. We watch the game. We're not watching TV. We're watching the game.

    And if you do sit there staring at the game for 3-4 hours without doing anything else, then a 90 minute buffer sure isn't going to help you whether it's on or not.

    Remember how "the workaround" was deemed inconvenient because you had to record the program, pad it, go into the playlist, watch it, delete it? Same thing here. If I started with a Yankee game at 12pm then went to Tuner 2 at 1pm for the Jets game and watched it straight through to 4pm, I want to jump back to the Yankee game and see the last hour and a half plus the postgame show. No chance that I missed the last inning that way which is what often happens even with a recording and padding.

    You don't pause the game you're watching to pick up your son from school? Yes, if you watch an hour of TV without pausing or hitting any other button, then you just walk away, again without pausing, for another hour, your buffer will be gone. But guess what, even if the buffer was there, you'd miss at least 30 minutes of the show on the other tuner that you were so worried about.

    If I knew I was going to be away from the TV for an hour of course I'd pause it or record the shows in question. I often find that I go to the mailbox during a commercial, speak to a neighbor, find out that my son is up the block, walk up there, speak to another parent, come home, BOOM, an hour is gone and so is buffer #2.

    You are not a real-world DVR user. I think that's why you're struggling to understand where the rest of us are coming from.

    BJ
     
  15. boltjames

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    First you tell me not to tell others how to use their DVR's and then you tell me how to use my DVR. Confusing.

    I'm just conveying how I, and thousands of others, have used the second tuners in our DVR's for years. Those of us who never liked PIP and who watch programs without recording much. For those of us like that, who don't watch two things at once, who don't jump back/forth incessantly, quickly putting a secondary program in the 2nd buffer is a down-and-dirty way to do exactly what you're recommending.

    A Yankee game never ends on time, and it rolls right into the excellent YES postgame show. I can finish a Jets game at 4pm and know that I can just go to Tuner 2 and backskip to the final out and the postgame show which is a very fast and convenient alternative to going into the guide and recording both programs.

    DP is all about convenience, and I'd argue that to the commonplace DVR user, there are 10x more viewers who engage in the garden variety DLB usage I describe as opposed to the power usage others are describing. That there are 10x more users using the second tuner as a second tuner and not as a Psycho Buffer Jumper. And for us, the 2 hour timeout is a deal-breaker.

    BJ
     
  16. gitarzan

    gitarzan Godfather

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    I don't think it is complicated. I have 25 years of corporate IT experince and I think I know complicated. I guess everyones viewing habits are different but during the course of a day it is very likely I would have used the buffer on a background tuner if it were available maybe once or twice. My TV is often on 10-12 hours a day. I keep it on the background while I do other things. I rarely sit and watch TV unless a UK basketball game is on. During the day I like to watch in the background aniimal planet, science channel or some other education channel and usually have a news or business channel that I will switch back and forth between every hour or maybe every several hours. Since I only watch a few channels it is likely that swap to a channel that is not buffered does have something I would be interested in or switching back to what I was previously watching. I don't feel it is asking to much to be able to rewind if I feel I have missed something interesting to me. If I have to take the time and thought to turn on DP every few hours I won't bother.
     
  17. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Oh yes they did. He loved switching and rewinding.



    Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Pausing and switching during the 4th quarter of a tied NFL game. :nono2:

    If you're not going to pause the game for something else, then you don't need DP anyway, so why the compaints?



    I can picture you now on your couch wearing your jersey. :lol:

    Again, if you are going to sit through a 3-4 hour game in your Jersey eating chips and dip, the you don't need DP. Why the complaints? DP is for people that want to watch more than one thing at a time, clearly you don't.



    No, I never found the workaround inconvenient. If fact, I preferred it to Tivos DLB, because it would auto-resume.



    You're been using it for an hour and this often happens? And if you are gone an hour after pausing it, then the buffer wouldn't be gone. You'd have another whole hour to go try on Jerseys before it dumped. Additionally, I try not to use my neighbors to determine my kids whereabouts, so apparently we're different in many ways.

    Where the rest of us are coming from????? You're in the minority. You're in the minority here and you'd be in the minority among real-world users. You really thing real-world users are hoping to come home from work and find 2 random shows that they can rewind and watch at the same time? You're delusional if you think that. That's your only knock against it. The whole "times out after 2 hours argument" because your neighbor tells you to go get your kids is among the weakest things I've ever heard here.

    You don't like the fact that you can't come home and rewind 2 random things that might happen to be on. Even though realistically this would only happen maybe a couple of times per year (unless you'll watch just about anything), it gives you one thing to make a stink about. Which is your MO. Some people are never happy. You're one of them. Most people aren't. Most people will be very pleased with this.
     
  18. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    The quote above is telling everyone how they should not be using their DVRs. My replies have been about how you are using your DVR--with a suggestion of a way to accomplish what you want.
    Sorry, none of us buys this comment. Your statements are too often conflicting: DVRs should never DLB, DVRs can't do DLB, no one should ever watch live events, you never use DLB, occassionally use DLB, now you want to use DLB all the time, etc. Statements of this inconsistency are purely attempts to argue. Whichever side, doesn't matter.
    So you might record the postgame show. You'll get the final out. :D

    Or you might try flipping to the Yankee game during one of the many commercials on the Jets game... (I still don't think you are really interested in the Yankee game if all you want is the last out. That sounds like highlights reel to me...) :)
    Lets see: No one should ever use DLB. Now it is a convenience. And commonplace DVR users use DLB, but none of them should use DLB...

    And now you're providing statistics on how many users would use DLB (that, again you feel shouldn't use DLB) vs. how many power users would use DLB differently.

    Then again here is the probably most telling part of that sentence:
    :)

    (Our would that be arguably the most telling part?) :)

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  19. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    If that's the way you feel about it, then don't use it .. 'nuff said. Then you save that step backward. Everyone else that enjoys DP will be happily using it later today for Sunday Ticket :)
     
  20. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Me! Me! Me! I'll be using it :)

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
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