Do I need a ground from the dish to the Hybrid Solo Hub?

Discussion in 'Hopper System Support Forum' started by Virginiaguy, Dec 15, 2018.

  1. Virginiaguy

    Virginiaguy New Member

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    Ok, I’m replacing a VIP 722 with a Hopper3 next week. I have to run new RG6 because my existing cable, which is run through about 170’ of 1 1/2” heavy plastic conduit, does not meet the “swept to 3GHZ” standard. My existing dish is mounted atop a 4” Schedule 80 pipe that used to support a big C band dish. That Schedule 80 pipe is grounded and a ground wire goes to a ground block that the old RG6 goes through at the dish before it goes to the LNB’s.

    My question is, can I just run a high quality RG6 Swept to 3 GHZ cable from the ground block at the dish without using a “messenger” cable ground at both ends? I’ve seen wiring diagrams that show ONLY the RG6 from the dish to the Hybrid Solo Hub and others that show a ground from the dish all the way to the Hub, with the Hub being grounded to a house ground. I’ve NEVER had a ground at the receiver end. The cable from the dish goes right to the 722 receiver.

    I just received my new cable today and could have ordered it with a “ground” wire attached to it, but didn’t. I have some old Adelphia cable on a reel that has a messenger wire with it. If I HAVE to have a ground from the dish to the house, could I use that old Adelphia wire? It’s new and has never been installed. I'm pulling my new cable through in the next day or two and would just pull a separate ground wire if it’s really necessary and ok to run it that way.

    Nobody I talked to, Dish or cable folks, said anything about being sure to run a new ground wire with my new RG6.

    Thanks for any advice!
     
  2. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    what is your goal ? aside just talking about cabling

    there are two kind of purpose of installing ground wire: lighting protection and electroshock protection of human and animals who are touching the equipment : dish, hub, splitter, receiver(s)...
     
  3. studechip

    studechip Godfather

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    In reference to a dish, grounding is more to allow for static discharge. A ground wire isn't going to provide protection against a lightning strike.
     
  4. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    true
     
  5. Virginiaguy

    Virginiaguy New Member

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    Granted, my post was wordy but I was just trying to establish what was in place now. I am installing new cable because Dish won’t run it through my conduit. They are installing and activating a H3 and two 4K Joeys later this week.
    My question was simply, is a new RG6 cable all I need to run from the dish to the house? I have seen wiring schematics that show a single, 3GHZ rated RG6 coax ONLY running from the dish to the Hybrid Solo Hub. I have also seen diagrams that show a ground running from the dish to the Hub. Do I need to add a ground to my cable pull, or is it sufficient to ground it on each end?
     
  6. Virginiaguy

    Virginiaguy New Member

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    So without getting into the reasons for grounding, which I understand, is a properly rated RG6 coax all I need to run from dish to the Hub?
     
  7. NYDutch

    NYDutch DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    And to answer the OP's question, a separate ground is not needed between the grounding block and the hub. The grounded shield in the coax is sufficient.
     
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  8. Virginiaguy

    Virginiaguy New Member

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    Ohh, ok. Thanks! I never thought about the coax shielding performing a grounding function. I always thought of it as “shielding” the cable from stray frequencies.
    So I assume everyone would agree that a coax is all that is needed? That’s what I needed to know.
     
  9. Virginiaguy

    Virginiaguy New Member

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    Dutch, the rest of your reply above showed up in my email, but for some reason, it’s not showing up in your post above. You said:

    “On a different note, I would have waited to replace the existing RG6 until I tested it with the H3. A lot of RG6 easily passes 3GHz signals without having been actually tested at that frequency. I've tested my H2 with 250' of non-3GHz swept coax and it worked perfectly. 3GHz sweep testing takes time and money...”

    I agree with your thought there, but the Dish Tech said my old cable might “fry” the H3 and basically refused to even try it. My old cable is called Echo Flex and I ran it in the mid 80’s. It is very high quality RG6, and I felt would probably carry the signal fine. But as we all know, I didn’t want to give them any room to say any potential problems were caused by a “non-compliant” cable, so hence the new RG6 coax. It was only $51 so it was getting it. Looks to be a pretty nice cable.
     
  10. Virginiaguy

    Virginiaguy New Member

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    Oops! To clarify, “It was only $51 so it was WORTH getting it.”
     
  11. NYDutch

    NYDutch DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I deleted the rest when I read that you were not self installing the H3. Obviously if the Dish tech insisted on 3GHz swept coax, you didn't have much choice in the matter. I would question the tech saying the non-swept coax might "fry" the H3 though. It might screw up the MOCA signal, but that won't fry anything. Worst case, a Joey might not communicate properly with the H3.
     
  12. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    how exactly ?
     
  13. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    actually it's not;
    coax shield is a part of RF waveguide and not designed to be a ground;
    if you have good 3GHz RG6 with a "messenger" - use it; if don't have - fine;
    just be sure your dish/LNB and hub have run ground wires to appropriate ground points
     
  14. Virginiaguy

    Virginiaguy New Member

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    Gotcha Dutch! Well now we know the forum may shoot off an email before any edits are made. Thanks for explaining.

    PSmith, Since the RG6 I ordered doesn’t have a messenger wire, I’ll just be sure both ends are grounded properly and call it good.
     
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  15. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    that's OK
    just don't relay to coax shield as a ground wire ;)
     
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  16. Virginiaguy

    Virginiaguy New Member

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    Thanks for the replies, everyone. I’m a little surprised a Dish Tech or installer didn’t chime with a straight forward answer....

    No, a separate ground is not required from the LNBF TO THE Hub, or
    Yes, Dish requires a separate ground from the LNBF to the Hub.

    I only say this because, as I mentioned earlier, I have seen schematics that show it both ways.

    Go figure!
     
  17. tivofan2018

    tivofan2018 Member

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    my dish is 100 FT in the air with no way to ground it so i didn't ground it. though i live in so cal it never thunders and lighting here ;). though i would ground it if i lived where there's alot of t storms just to be safe;). as we wouldn't want to loose a member of this forum;)
     
  18. audiomaster

    audiomaster DBSTalk Club Member

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    I have had two different dish installers here at the house. Last one for H3 Dish is on the roof but near the lower edge. Both installers left the ground "carrier" wire that runs with the dual orange coax disconnected at the dish, so the rooftop dish frame is NOT grounded unless internally grounded thru the LNB coax connectors?

    Shouldn't it be for static and lightning protection"? The switch and splitter is in the attic and connected to H3 and 4 Joeys throughout the house. The switch in the attic is grounded but not to a separate ground wire to a earth rod, but to the ground wire on a nearby HVAC unit. Doesn't the NEC code require an "antenna" to be grounded where it enters the building? There is no ground block there.
    If this is not installed correctly, will Dish fix it free? Or will they replace my house if lightning strikes the dish and runs in on the coax? And the Hopper is in my home theater rack with about 20K of audio gear. A lightning strike that ran down the coax to the H3 would probably also fry my receiver, and maybe even the 82" Samsung TV it's connected too!
     
  19. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Surely it will do ! Murphy law.
     
  20. Jim5506

    Jim5506 Hall Of Fame

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    Grounding is not to protect from lightening strikes.

    It is to reduce the likelihood of a strike by bleeding off the electrical potential to ground, hopefully the strike will go elsewhere.

    If you get a strike it could do physical damage to your house and or wipe out every electrical appliance in the house - or not.

    After all, the pulse has jumped hundreds or more feet through air, when it gets into metal wire or wet structure or even wooden structure it can go anywhere.
     

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