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Do you NEED a "watched" indication for timers

Discussion in 'Other HD Receiver Support Forum (811, 921, 942)' started by Dr. Collect, Mar 28, 2006.

Do you NEED a "watched" indication for timers

  1. I need a counter telling me how often a show has been watched

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. I just need to be told whether a show has been watched

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I don't need a feature like this at all, and can totally live without it

    8 vote(s)
    100.0%
  1. Dr. Collect

    Dr. Collect Mentor

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    Jun 26, 2005
    Per this thread, I'm starting a poll to see if many users want to be able to tell upon sight whether timers in the DVR list have been watched. There are three choices above to gauge you level of need. Highest is a request for a counter that shows how many times the timer was viewed. People with multiple users might need that to make sure everyone has viewed the timer before it can be deleted. Next is a binary "watched/not watched' system, for those who just need to know immediately whether a timer has been viewed. The last choice is self explanatory.

    EDIT: Judging from some of the responses, nobody's going to read the original thread to see what this is all about, so I'll quote my pre-posted greviences here:

     
  2. Ron Barry

    Ron Barry 622 Tips & Trick Keeper

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    Dec 10, 2002
    I personally see too many issues in determing what "Watched" means. Does it mean you have started to watch it? Finished it? Is the count only triggered at the end of the show?

    Maybe I am missing something. If your goal is to determine that everyone in the house has watched the show, I don't see anyway of determining this and I don't think a counter would provide much usefullness in my eyes.
     
  3. Jason Nipp

    Jason Nipp Analog Geek in a Digital World Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Jun 10, 2004
    Northern...
    I don't see any use for this for anyone but Nielson, but hey if it's something you feel is beneficial go ahead and submit a feature request.

    I could be wrong, as I never paid too close of attention, but the DVR History Log may already do this. I know it tracks what you record and when you deleted the content.
     
  4. lujan

    lujan Hall Of Fame

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    Feb 10, 2004
    The middle choice is already given to us indirectly because the "Resume" button becomes available once anyone has started watching a recording.
     
  5. Jason Nipp

    Jason Nipp Analog Geek in a Digital World Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    Unless you watched the event to the end, when the End of Event screen comes up, then it says start over instead of resume.
     
  6. Ron Barry

    Ron Barry 622 Tips & Trick Keeper

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    Dec 10, 2002
    Which brings us back to the my point that there is really no way of actually determing who or if the show was actually watched. I can accidently fast forward it to the end and I would assume it would trigger a count.
     
  7. lujan

    lujan Hall Of Fame

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    Feb 10, 2004
    True, but how many people watch the recording to the very end? They are just watching commercials especially if they have the default 3 minute padding.
     
  8. Jason Nipp

    Jason Nipp Analog Geek in a Digital World Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Jun 10, 2004
    Northern...
    I normally 300x FF finished events into the EOE (End of Event) screen because unless you have reached EOE or started up another event, it doesn't always let you delete it, in this scenario it will normally burp back something like the event is in use and cannot be deleted.
     
  9. Dr. Collect

    Dr. Collect Mentor

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    Jun 26, 2005
    As the feature exists on SageTV PVR software, there's a smartly determined waypoint in a recording where the system tags the show as "watched" once it's passed. That waypoint is somewhere near the end of the recording (I never attempted to check where. I'm sure it's documented somewhere, probably even in the manual), but you don't have to watch the recording all the way through, since most recordings have padding.

    I came up with the counter because others said they wanted to know whether others in the household have watched a show already (I don't need such a function, and have never seen anything else that would do that). If you know how many people there are in your house (and who doesn't?), and you assume that everyone would only want to watch a show once, then a counter would tell you everything you need to know. What are you missing?

    Not only is that unlikely, but as the feature exists with SageTV, you can manually toggle "watched" status with the push of a button.
     
  10. Dr. Collect

    Dr. Collect Mentor

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    Jun 26, 2005
    You have to enter a timer in order to know that. Why not have that same info immediately apparent on the DVR screen?
     
  11. Dr. Collect

    Dr. Collect Mentor

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    Jun 26, 2005
    Check the OP. I edited it to include an explanation of why this feature would be useful.
     
  12. Ron Barry

    Ron Barry 622 Tips & Trick Keeper

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    Dec 10, 2002
    Well personally I still see it being a problematic solution since it is making a guess and that guess may or may not be correct. I do see value in indicating recorded shows that have been touched by the end user so you can know what shows you have at least attempt to watch and what shows have not been looked at. Going further I think is where I feel it becomes problematic and the feature looses it value.

    That is what I meant by "What am I missing". I just dont see the value in an artificial count and using its value to determine to delete a show or not. The ability to toggle the watch shows is nice but I am not sure how many people would use it. Personally if I felt a show was watched I would just delete it. So if a show is set as watched does something automatically delete it or is this a manual process..

    Very interesting feature and I am sure it might make more sense if seen how one would use it with SageTV. I am one for features that help in the orginization and management of your content. I guess where it sticks is how this would be used above the current mechanism (Protect for example) to help in this managment.

    Maybe it is because I don't a situation where people are missing shows because someone deleted a show before everyone watched it.

    I will be watchign to see which way this poll goes..

    I
     
  13. Dr. Collect

    Dr. Collect Mentor

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    Jun 26, 2005
    It's not making a guess. It determines whether a show has been watched by determining whether a show has been played all the way through (or nearly all the way through, to account for padding). How often would somebody accidently fast-forward all the way to the end, and then abandon the timer? Is this something you do all the time?

    It's not about knowing whether to delete a show. If you're fine with deleting a show as soon as you finish watching it, then no, this feature wouldn't have any value. I don't delete any timers manually (unless it was a show I tried out and didn't like) - I keep them on the hard drive as long as space allows, since I revisit shows I like at least 50% of the time. It's about pure convenience. You know, just what these expensive, luxury gadgets are all about. I like to take full advantage of DVR technology, and watch what I want, when I want to. Right now, I'd have to keep up with the DVR every day and keep mental track of everything watched so I don't forget a timer buried deep in the timer list. That, or I'll have to enter each timer manually to see whether it's new or watched. Back in the Sage TV days, I was allowed to skip TV watching for a few days, a week, or even more, come back, and see immediately what shows were new and which I've watched.


    You're stuck on the counter thing. I have no use for the counter - I came up with that because of a problem others had. My main request is just to know what shows have been watched - I don't need to know which to delete.

    Incidently, Sage TV does factor in a show's watched status when deciding which recordings to delete when making room for new ones.
     
  14. Ron Barry

    Ron Barry 622 Tips & Trick Keeper

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    I have done it more than I would like to admit. ;) Usually happens when I fast forward at 300x and I am not paying that much attention. Well I personaly still consider it a guess, but I guess we can disagree on that point. If this feature was implemented I think marking it manually as watched would be my preference and then having watched shows be first to delete. Kinda of giving the user a way to keep a show on the drive but tag it for first deletion.

    Actually I do delete some shows immediatly and others just let them fall off the drive automatically.


    Not really... I understand more what you are suggesting, just not sure how much value and what priority I would place on such a feature compared to some of the others I would like to see like (Native pass through). I do agree it would be nice to see the shows that you have touched after they have been recorded or to manual tag one as watched so it will be deleted before a older non watched show. This could also be done automatic too if you just used the criteria of deleting recorded shows the viewer has accessed first I do see a number of wrinkles here and maybe a manual watch flag is the answer. Opposite of a protect flag.

    That would make sense. Hopefully I am not coming across as trying to dog on the feature. Not my intention. just trying to discuss is viability from my use case perspective.
     
  15. Dr. Collect

    Dr. Collect Mentor

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    Jun 26, 2005

    So why do you delete shows manually? Do you like doing that manually, or would you rather not think about it? Maybe it's because I came from a system that offered maximum convenience to the point where I didn't have to think about anything that I'm not used to deleting anything manually. Sage TV had a multifaceted system of deciding which recordings to delete when making room for new ones. Watched status would move it to the front of the line. From there, unrequested shows - the shows it'd record based on your viewing patterns would be deleted first, then your favorites (recurring timers) in order of recording priority and then recording date. Manually recorded shows would be deleted, in order of date recorded, only if there was no other room left, so manual recording status effectively acted as protection. And of course, that status could be toggled with a push of a button on the remote (for any recording, originally manually recorded or not). Of course, you could change that order if you wish, to just plain recording date.

    Now if your timers were deleted in that comprehensive of a manner, would you still prefer to delete them by hand? Is the only reason you delete shows by hand because you don't want your drive to be cluttered with shows that you've already watched?
     
  16. Dr. Collect

    Dr. Collect Mentor

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    Jun 26, 2005
    Ah, you guys are killing me with this poll. Maybe I tried TOO hard to be "unbiased" with my choices.
     
  17. lujan

    lujan Hall Of Fame

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    Feb 10, 2004
    That has never happened to me. I've always been able to delete without having to go to the very end.
     
  18. Jason Nipp

    Jason Nipp Analog Geek in a Digital World Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    Why would I not want control of what shows I delete? What if I wanted to watch a show again? What if I watched something and my wife wanted to watch it later? Sounds too much like industry control... I want control of what I record, watch, and how long I archive I for. Rumors have it the content industry is pushing for limitations on what I can record and how long I can keep it for, hell they tried that with DVD's... Remember the rumors on DVDs that you could only watch so many times before it was useless? That's bull, if I buy a movie or a PPV I am buying the right to watch it over and over till the ghosts in my house puke from the repetitiveness. Too much control my friend, I want this control, and the day limitations are enforced in such a manner is the day I send my DVR back and stop going to the movies all together. This is my biased opinion, your mileage may vary.
     
  19. Dr. Collect

    Dr. Collect Mentor

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    Jun 26, 2005
    :rolleyes: Jesus Christ! Is my writing that bad? You completely missed the point of the system I just explained. How did I imply that Sage gives you any LESS control than Dish? ALL DVR's delete shows automatically to make room for new ones, unless you choose to protect a show if you neglect to do so on your own. That's the case both for Dish and for Sage TV. By explaining the system that Sage uses to figure which recordings to delete first, I didn't mean to suggest that it didn't give you the choice to the manual chore of deleting each show individually. Of course it lets you do that, too, that's obvious. And I told you there's a way to soft protect a recording with Sage so that said recordings are overwritten only if you fill the drive with other recordings of similar status. Past that, you can hard protect shows by permanently archiving them permenantly.

    Am I writing gibberish? This is such a freaking no-brainer to me that I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong that people would actually opt for LESS control over their timers. A DVR is supposed to be convenient, right? Move the cursor to a show you want, and click to record. Why stop there and put up with the mental labor of bookkeeping with your timers. So we finally got the ability to make permanent the attributes we sort by. But with broadcasting schedules as erratic as they are, I'd like to know, when surveying my timers, whether any of the three "Saturday Night Lives" in the list are new, or whether I've already seen them. I don't want to have to keep up with the TV schedule - to have to view ads to see whether there was supposed to be a new SNL this week. I FF through ads - remember? I've got an hour to burn - I don't want to spend five minutes of that hour entering each timer just to see which I haven't viewed yet, and fielding disappointment after the initial hope that a timer might be new. I want to be able to regulate all the new shows, an alphabetical order, to the top of the pile, and feel the satisfaction I used to feel from seeing a smorgasboard of brand new episodes of all my favorite shows from which I can choose according to my immediate mood, and recieve instant gratification. Why the hell would 22 people opt for otherwise?

    Edit: Make that 23 :nono2:
     
  20. Jason Nipp

    Jason Nipp Analog Geek in a Digital World Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    I have very little issues when I set a timer to record only New events, I rarely get a duplicate recording or something I have already seen. The DVR has done a good job managing that for me, for the most part. The only time I get a duplicate, is when I clear my logs. Now I have to fully admit I don't watch SNL or anything like that, but I did have a timer set up for Quantum Leap, and I have yet to get a duplicate recording. As always, YMMV.

    As far as no one listening to you, that isn't the case. You appear to be very quick to be defensive on your replies, and where a explanation should be an argumentative tone or sarcastic tone is there instead. Most of the long timers on the forums, have been around. Alot of us have been here since the beginning of PVR technology. We have seen many people lobby for controls, and otherwise. Heck there were even discussions of taking away the ability to skip through commercials. So you must realize where the skepticism stems from. We are not ignorant, we just don't like it when someone rattles cages.

    You posted a poll, and it seems the majority don't agree with you. Do you think everyone agrees with what I say? Does it mean the idea that people don't agree with isn't a good one for some people? Not it doesn't imply that at all. But when you talk in terms of features, not everyone has the same ideals or requirements, and it is impossible to make every single user happy. All of us are unique in our usage habits, and preferences. You can't get upset if others voice a differing opinion.

    Perhaps your user name and geographic location make people suspicious of your intentions? Or maybe its cause you insist people don't understand just because they disagree.

    I say step back, think about your next explanation, and try again with out going off on the people your trying to convince.

    Again, my opinion, I have read what you want multiple times, and I just don't see the need for the feature. Someone else may, and that's fine, but I can live without it. I would certainly like to see the ability to switch between single and dual user mode from the remote, before I saw this happen.

    Jason
     

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