1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

DoJ Takes On Kindle On Campus

Discussion in 'Tech Talk - Gadgets, Gizmos and Technology' started by Nick, Jul 1, 2010.

  1. Jul 1, 2010 #1 of 54
    Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

    21,906
    209
    Apr 23, 2002
    The...
    Government Run Amok - If everyone can't use it, then no one can use it!
    More @ MediaBistro.com
     
  2. Jul 1, 2010 #2 of 54
    lflorack

    lflorack Godfather

    473
    0
    Dec 16, 2006
    Amazing!
     
  3. Jul 1, 2010 #3 of 54
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

    30,092
    3
    Nov 15, 2005
    And a standard printed book, is any different?

    Heck... the Knidle versions, coudl be adabted to be on larger screens to help those with low vision ability... and probably there is a straight translator to a brail generator.
     
  4. Jul 1, 2010 #4 of 54
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

    14,612
    373
    Sep 5, 2006
    Allen, TX
    What's wrong with this? The Kindle shouldn't be endorsed by colleges until it's properly designed for blind students. Blind students deserve the ease of use Kindle provides.

    How can anyone disagree with the action?
     
  5. Jul 1, 2010 #5 of 54
    Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

    6,081
    46
    Mar 18, 2008
    They are because they are sold in campus book stores where schools get a %.

    This is nothing more than universities seeing a lucrative revenue stream dry up fast.
     
  6. Jul 1, 2010 #6 of 54
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

    30,092
    3
    Nov 15, 2005
    Blind and Vision challenged people already need special editions of the text that the classes use.

    So what is the problem with Kindle (or any other eReader) being the standard option for those that don't have those issues?

    As I noted in my other reply.

    Technologically speaking, the Kindle (eReader) data, could be easily adapted to large display systems for those are low vision problems... and an brail generator for those that are completely blind.

    The argument in the link, discussing "if technology is used"....
    Just going back to when I was in College... most of my class work would have been extremely difficult for those that had vision difficulties. And we used "technology" in just about any class.
     
  7. Jul 1, 2010 #7 of 54
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

    14,612
    373
    Sep 5, 2006
    Allen, TX
    That's what the DoJ wants..."the universities provide reasonable accommodation or modification so that a student can acquire the same information, engage in the same interactions, and enjoy the same services as sighted students with substantially equivalent ease of use."
     
  8. Jul 1, 2010 #8 of 54
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

    30,092
    3
    Nov 15, 2005
    That is now I interpretted it.

    I read it as, they don't want the Kindle used or advanced at all in the education sector at all.

    Going back to your point about the MONSTER $$$$ stream that the paper versions of books generate.
     
  9. Jul 1, 2010 #9 of 54
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

    14,612
    373
    Sep 5, 2006
    Allen, TX
    The DoJ letter said,
    - the universities agreed not to purchase, require, or recommend use of the Kindle DX, or any other dedicated electronic book reader
    - In order to do so, the schools must:
    - be sure the device is fully accessible to individuals who are blind or have low vision
    - provide reasonable accommodation or modification so that a student can acquire the same information, engage in the same interactions, and enjoy the same services as sighted students with substantially equivalent ease of use.​
     
  10. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

    6,081
    46
    Mar 18, 2008
    Nothing stops a student with the handicaps they're talking about from using the same ways they do today. This endorsement from the DoJ and DoE gives the universities the ability to put a lot of pressure on publishers to not release e-book versions. Which is exactly what they want because people like google, amazon, apple will give the publishers a larger cut of the sale to help them sell more hardware.
     
  11. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

    5,858
    319
    Nov 2, 2007
    NE FL
    Doesn't the Kindle have a 'read-to-me' feature? Wouldn't that satisfy the requirement for blind or vision impaired people?
     
  12. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    14,043
    94
    Jan 24, 2007
    Do my tax dollars really need to pay for this? :nono:

    What do the visually impaired to now? The standard textbook has to be a problem so what do they do now.

    Why isn't the DOJ taking on the textbook publishers? :rolleyes:

    Not to mention the Kindle has text to speech built in, although you have to be able to see to activate it.

    Mike
     
  13. Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

    21,906
    209
    Apr 23, 2002
    The...
    Traditional, hard-copy printed books don't meet ADA requirements either. So, do we burn books, or just ban their use?

    And what about children's playgrounds? Just because some children with disabilities cannot fully avail themselves of such facilities, should we have workers rip swings and sliding boards out of the ground?


    This is nuts...the libs and their limp-wristed agenda have finally won. Fifty years of fighting liberal socialism and social liberalism has come down to this. I give up! :mad:
     
  14. Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

    30,092
    3
    Nov 15, 2005
    So in other words... forget using the advantages of technology... until the full chicken is there before the egg.

    I have nothing but respect and admiration for those that work hard at overcomming and adapting to their handicaps. But, in this case....

    I just see it as nothing more then a $$$$ thing. There is absolutely no reason why the universities shouldn't be adapting to an electronic version of the material. Just makes sense. I have thrown out so many $75+ text books, that I thought I would keep... Electronic versions can be updated and corrected in "moments". Distributed to everone, and there is no "out of stock", wait for the second print.

    This just smells and reeks of $$$ that someone is loosing out on at the bookstores... and they are using the handicap as their angle to get the trend reversed.
    Thinking back to my college days (mid 90's)... some of the most important material, were the copies of the lecture presentations that were done on the overhead projectors.
    I have no idea on how these would have been provided to blind and vision impared students in a respectable time frame.
     
  15. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

    14,612
    373
    Sep 5, 2006
    Allen, TX
    They get books on tape. Many schools have departments set up to do this for disabled students. I have physical trouble turning pages and opening textbooks due to a muscle disease. Audio textbooks on tape were available if I asked.

    They have adaptive playgrounds, now. It's great that the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, playgrounds must have equipment that is usable by children with disabilities. In 1998, these regulations were updated to reflect specific requirements for people under twelve years of age.


    :lol: You're mad that society cares about disabled people? Yeah, us "limp-wristed" libs actually want equality...how socialistic! I guess you hated how 50 years ago you fought liberal socialism and social liberalism having to give blacks "liberal" rights? Then, that Title IX was horrible huh? Then, that stupid Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 was another socialistic agenda, huh? :rolleyes: How about we treat you elderly folks a little less special? No more senior citizen discounts, AARP, etc.
     
  16. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

    37,060
    287
    Jun 18, 2006
    It seems to me that this us just another one of those stories which seem to pop up that get a rise out of people without giving all the facts. Sadly these stories have become much more common in recent years.
     
  17. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

    14,612
    373
    Sep 5, 2006
    Allen, TX
    Look at this idea...A school says, "We're doing all texts on Kindle DX with an exclusive deal....no more books. You buy one here or on-line, then download books you need."

    Great idea! Ok, but Kindle isn't adaptive for visual impaired students. The DoJ, which enforces the ADA, says, "The schools can do this IF the device is fully accessible to individuals who are blind or have low vision. Or, the schools provide reasonable accommodation or modification so that a student can acquire the same information, engage in the same interactions, and enjoy the same services as sighted students with substantially equivalent ease of use."

    Pretty simple, IMO.


    As for asking about the copies of the lecture presentations that were done on the overhead projectors...Schools have Office of Disability Accommodations that hire note takers or get notes from profs then convert them for the students in need.
     
  18. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

    12,566
    61
    Nov 16, 2005
    Wylie, Texas
    So, then what's the problem with the Kindle? Can't they still get those same books on tape? This is laughable.

    Nobody is preventing those with handicaps from having access to the material are they? They just can't use a Kindle. There's other means available.
     
  19. Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

    30,092
    3
    Nov 15, 2005
    Look at it this way:

    Hey, we are only making text books that are in standard print.
    We are not making any brail editions or audio editions.

    What is the difference?

    Pretty simple, IMO.

    Have there really been instances, where there is ONLY the kindle/ebook edition... and absolutely no other edition available for those that can't use those?
    What stops there from being a brail/audio tape edition of a book and a eBook edition....

    Again, on the surface... to me, this has aboslutely nothing to do with the handicap issue of the statement.
    That is the just the avenue that was found to make the argument, to protect the $$$$ that is involved.
     
  20. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

    14,612
    373
    Sep 5, 2006
    Allen, TX
    Not every book is readily on tape. Plus, electronic media is more likely to have extra features that textbooks don't have. Again, the DoJ isn't saying no to Kindle DX...it's saying schools can use the Kindle DX idea IF the device is fully accessible to individuals who are blind or have low vision. Or, the schools provide reasonable accommodation or modification so that a student can acquire the same information, engage in the same interactions, and enjoy the same services as sighted students with substantially equivalent ease of use.
     

Share This Page