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Dropping support for standard definition receivers?

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by tcernuto, May 6, 2011.

  1. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Surely the TV manufacturers didn't replace TVs or recorders that lacked ATSC tuners when that time came.

    I'm pretty sure cable companies don't replaced owned cable boxes when their technologies change.

    If I need a DOCSIS 3.0 cable modem, I'm on the hook for that.

    Apple didn't replace 680x0-based Macs when they transitioned to PowerPC and subsequently Intel based Macs.

    The consumer electronics industry (with the exception of subsidized wireless phones that are effectively leased anyway) doesn't operate the way you think it should and that's not likely to change.
     
  2. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    It's just incorrect comparison. :nono2:
    Apples and dishes !
     
  3. adkinsjm

    adkinsjm Icon

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    The business model changed. Buying a receiver doesn't mean you are guaranteed service in perpetuity.
     
  4. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    You skewed to wrong direction too :nono2: - the idea was about keep a status of owned device while continue the service.
     
  5. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    They were forced by government standards to include ATSC tuners in devices with an NTSC tuner ... but ceasing NTSC broadcasting wasn't their change - and including ATSC tuners in new equipment would have been a wise business decision despite the government mandate.

    Owned cable boxes? Any privately purchased tuners would remain "unsupported".

    In general, DISH and DirecTV should not be allowing people to purchase receivers. Although for those who want more than six tuners in a household (DISH) it is a good way of cutting the losses of leasing high value equipment at a low rate of return. It is better to sell receivers to those wanting more than six tuners (or a second 922) than to lose the business completely. But any such sale is done at THE CUSTOMER'S RISK.

    A purchased receiver is just the same as any other purchased electronic equipment. WHEN (not if) it becomes obsolete it becomes a boat anchor. Perhaps some electronics recycling program could strip the receiver for it's parts/metal value but junk is junk.

    The DISH IT UP program might work to get some value out of old owned receivers. Replacing owned with leased and getting a nominal credit for the returned receiver. I replaced a 301 with a 211 many years ago via that program. I don't expect my remaining owned 301 and 501 to last forever. If I am forced to trade them in I hope I would get a similar deal ... perhaps one 622 or 722 replacing both the 301 and 501 with a net equipment increase of $3 ($17 Duo DVR replacing two $7 Solo receivers). The DVR fee would be an additional hit for a similar customer who did not already have a DVR with a fee. If there is some credit for returning each piece of owned equipment it would help. Even if the credit is far below what one paid to own the receiver.

    I don't expect an "owned for owned" upgrade. The current value of the old SD equipment is not the same as the current value of the new HD equipment. If there were HD equipment of the same value "owned for owned" might work but why hand out equipment that the customer can turn around and sell for a profit? DISH is a for profit business, not a charity.
     
  6. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Hall Of Fame

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    Which isn't the way it is done in any industry that I can think of.

    So here's the scenario. If you want to have all your channels that you subscribe to available, then you have to do something because Dish is changing some things to improve the service and possibly offer more channels.

    1. One way is what is offered. Get new boxes with a 2-year commit with no upfront charge for them, and pay a lease/mirror fee. That's potentially the cheapest.

    2. Buy the new boxes yourself and pay a mirroring fee, but incur no new committment. That fixes your cost, but you own the new equipment.

    3. Don't do anything at all, or do something else on your dime. Make your own dish install with however many dishes, pointing wherever you want. Cheapest, but maybe still won't have the channels available.

    4. Do nothing at all and keep things the way they are.

    So really, the customer has a few choices depending on how important the new/HD stuff is to them. Dish is just offering to make it easy and not very expensive.
     
  7. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Don't forget - the OLD SD receivers and DVR after passing refurbishing procedure selling/leasing on other markets - up north and down to south.
     
  8. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Those markets are becoming less valuable as HD capable devices will be needed both north and south of our borders, along with ATSC tuners for OTA as those countries make their transitions away from NTSC.
     
  9. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Could be true in a future, but for now - the our transition to HD from SD is perfectly match their transition from 0 to SD satellite reception in part of moving SD boxed to other market(s)
     
  10. Jim5506

    Jim5506 Hall Of Fame

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    SD receivers and DVR's did not cost all that much, I f I recall I paid $49 for each of my 301's and $99 for my 510.

    They have long since outlived their depreciable value.

    The only reason I own a 211 is that Dish would not lease me a 4th receiver.

    I sold one of my 301's and my 510 on eBay - good riddance!
     
  11. SeaBeagle

    SeaBeagle Legend

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    I agree. If the customer has a purchased receiver and being forced to upgrade to another type of receiver then the replacement receiver should be considered OWNED and NOT leased. If I were in that element I would cancel the service.
     
  12. SeaBeagle

    SeaBeagle Legend

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    i agree great comment!!!
     
  13. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I don't know about that.

    Just because you buy a receiver doesn't mean it is guaranteed to be supported forever.

    I have a TV with an analog tuner that no longer receives any broadcast OTA... but Toshiba didn't have to replace my TV with one that includes a digital tuner just because I owned it.

    There are PS3 and Xbox games that have online gaming networks that are only good for the current year... where you have to buy next year's version of the game to use to continue online gaming once they shut down the old servers... even though you own the old version of the game.

    Microsoft has dropped support for lots of old versions of their operating systems... but at no point did they ever give you a free replacement new version of the operating system.

    I'm sure there are more examples.

    Yeah, it kind of sucks if you buy a Dish receiver and they one day obsolete it such that you can no longer use it for Dish service... but that's just the nature of technology.
     
  14. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    People are paying hundreds of dollars to start a LEASE the top of the line DVRs, or $99 to start a LEASE of other HD DVRs. The current HD receivers are worth a lot more than the ones being traded in. The old SD receivers/DVRs have lost their value over time (like other consumer electronics). If you want to own the latest receiver, you need to purchase the latest receiver.
     
  15. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    harsh in post#21 already attempted to compare Apples and Dishes. Seems to me you are going same wrong way, but we done with the moot analogies.
     
  16. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Maybe it is your viewpoint that is moot.

    I challenge you to explain, in American English, how not replacing your NTSC television, recorder or owned cable box isn't an identical situation.
     
  17. bnborg

    bnborg Icon

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    On a lighter note, Dish Depot is having a closeout sale on SD receivers--$70 and $80.
     
  18. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    One SIMPLE point: all mentioned device are INDEPENDENT from a provider.

    Dish/DTV devices are useless without PAY service !
     
  19. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    And yet they are sold to willing buyers ... many of them who understand the devaluing of consumer electronics and the likelyhood that a $400-$600 investment in a top of the line device will net much less on the resale market after only a couple of years.

    There are even people who will pay $100-$200 to start a lease and never own the device. It is all part of the price of getting top of the line equipment before a provider (DirecTV or DISH) makes that equipment the standard "free" install.

    And when the pricy equipment becomes the standard the value drops. The old "top of the line" model is no longer worth hundreds of dollars in resale value ... it is worth much less.

    There is no guarantee that any DirecTV or DISH equipment purchased will hold its value. In fact, anyone who has followed equipment prices for more than a couple of years would testify to the opposite. It seems stubborn to insist that DirecTV or DISH somehow fulfill a guarantee that they never made.

    The value of the old owned equipment is gone. It is time to accept that and move on.
     
  20. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    But they don't sell them all that willingly. DIRECTV makes owning a receiver particularly difficult and DISH Network purchased receivers aren't generally available through consumer electronics storefronts (Radio Shack, Sears).
     

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