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Dual Buffers

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Que, Aug 17, 2006.

Dual Buffers

  1. A must have!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Don't really care about it.

    94.1%
  3. Like the option but, Ok if it's not there.

    5.9%
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  1. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

    707
    0
    Sep 3, 2006
    Can't argue that logic, but it's a matter of percentages.

    Mr. & Mrs. DirecTV America find themselves recording two shows simultaneously, what, once or twice a week? Maybe 4 hours a week of two tuner overlap?

    With DLB active, that's 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 168 hours of processor strain each week, 8,736 hours a year, always taxing, always spinning, always working.

    In it's day, the HR10 was a rich man's plaything. The HD afficianado's dream set top box. Cost a month's takehome pay for the average American. The HR20, well, it's for the masses. D* has moved from the BMW crowd to the Camry crowd and they're designing it to be as stable and bulletproof as possible. Keep defectives to a minimum, keep customers happy, no phone calls, no house calls, nice and reliable. I'm far from a computer engineer, but seems to me that cutting the workload of the box in half is a nice way of keeping my mom from having a breakdown, calling D*, and considering FIOS instead.

    BJ
     
  2. beer_geek

    beer_geek Legend

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    0
    Jun 14, 2007
    Speaking of percentages...

    It's a "must have" to 5% of ALL the members of DBSTalk.com. That's a significant number.
     
  3. tiger2005

    tiger2005 Godfather

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    Sep 22, 2006
    1. This ISN'T the TiVo board. Seriously, what would you expect on a board totally devoted to TiVo? :rolleyes:
    2. It sounds like you're problem isn't with this thread or people griping about problems with DirecTV's DVR's, but with a lack of decision-making ability and self-confidence. Its great to do research on products you're interested in on boards, but to base that decision solely on OTHER people's opinions, especially when negative, is not a smart move. Cowboy up and take a leap! :nono2:
     
  4. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

    707
    0
    Sep 3, 2006
    As you yourself point out, the "I Love My HR20" thread is on page two already. Product related message boards are filled with negative posts from unhappy people, because the happy people really have no reason to voice an opinion. It's a well-known internet phenomenon. Pick a product related message board, it's filled with negativity and complaints from the small fraction of people who are angry with it. The product sells in droves, people love it, but you read about it on its message board and you're led to believe it's a train wreck.

    So, what you're really pointing out is that only 5% of all the complaining/negative members of DBSTalk.com care about DLB which is statistically insignificant.

    And that, dear friends, is Reason #1 why D* didn't bother to include DLB in their first and second editions of their proprietary HD DVR's.

    Lack of interest.

    BJ
     
  5. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

    707
    0
    Sep 3, 2006
    I just spent two years listening to the complaining about the HR20 over at the Tivo forum and cannot believe that it's followed me here.

    An HR10 owner will tell you that the loss of DLB is the biggest reason to stay with the HR10 and avoid the HR20, and then he'll tell you that the Tivo UI is superior to the HR20's too. It's all false and it's all self-serving to a very small fraction of the D* userbase.

    If I'm a confused or intimidated HR10 owner or I'm a confused or intimidated HDTV newb considering D* vs. other options, this thread isn't helping me.

    The intent of this forum should not be to disuade potential D* customers from joining the best TV delivery service in America. This thread, by its mere existance and dominance atop this board, does just that and it's wrong.

    The HR20 is an awesome machine, superior to the HR10 in every way imaginable. But you land here, and you'd believe otherwise. Someone has to stand up and defend the phenomenal HR20. Looks like that person is me.

    BJ
     
  6. beer_geek

    beer_geek Legend

    206
    0
    Jun 14, 2007

    Are you really that dense or just pretending?

    I said ALL members. That includes everyone in the 37 forums on this board. That's DirecTV, Dishnetwork, XM, Sirius, other forms of Satellite tv.

    Again, 5% of the TOTAL is a significant number.
     
  7. jodyguercio

    jodyguercio Active Member

    2,793
    0
    Aug 16, 2007
    The HR20 is an awesome machine, superior to the HR10 in every way imaginable. But you land here, and you'd believe otherwise. Someone has to stand up and defend the phenomenal HR20. Looks like that person is me.

    BJ[/QUOTE]

    I would hardly call it superior in every way......do a search, how many missed recordings on HR20 vs HR10 all due to whatever reason but mainly what most are calling bad guide data or the error 13 ( I never did see what came of that explanation )...that reason alone is how I find it hard to call it superior to the other.....the basic design is to setup a SL or SP what ever you call it and forget about it, not have to check every day and make sure that what you set up is getting recorded.....
     
  8. gregjones

    gregjones Hall Of Fame

    1,333
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    Sep 20, 2007
    Maybe 5% of the people that voted. Where did you retrieve this statistic?
     
  9. beer_geek

    beer_geek Legend

    206
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    Jun 14, 2007
    Go to the top of the page. Click on Members List. That'll give you the total number of members. Compare that to the number of people who voted "Must Have". You can only vote if you become a member.
     
  10. woj027

    woj027 Icon

    935
    8
    Sep 3, 2007
    Portland, OR
    I personally think that DLB is First Class Luxury that many D* customers never knew about, or used.

    I think that once you use DLB and know what it can do, you wouldn't want to have a system without it.

    For sports fans it is indispensable. You can watch one game, pause, easily switch to another, pause and go back and forth without missing any action. -- Remember "Easily", the "Live TV" or switch tuner function made it easy.

    That said, since D* did not provide DLB on the HR20, all I can do is come here and find other souls to share my sorrows.

    I hope that new D* customers, or New DBSTALK members do not get the idea that the HR20 (or for that matter the OTA Free HR21) is a bad receiver. It's just that I've been flying First Class all these years, and now Coach is the only thing available. But it sure beats having to fly in the Cargo hold. (Cable, or Dish)
     
  11. MikeR7

    MikeR7 Icon

    955
    0
    Jun 17, 2006
    OK, I have it all figured out as to why there is no DLB on the HR20/21.

    I consider myself just an average somewhat techie person. I got one HR20 in Feb and another one in April. The machines did what I wanted from day one, recorded and played back those recordings, almost flawlessly.

    I was aware of the DLB buzz, but as it grew to shouting, I got more interested in what all the shouting was about. It took me a while to understand what was being talked about when DLB was described, but I finally got it. So being a curious guy I decided to get me a HR10-250, which I did off of e-bay. It was delivered and I got it hooked up. It worked very well. It took me awhile to learn how to activate two live buffers on what shows I actually wanted to switch between, but I figured that out finally. Just in time for football season, which was what I understood to be the main benefit of having DLB, switching between games quickly and checking out other games.

    So I sat down in Week 1 to figure out how I wanted to watch football with all my machines. I wanted to watch two games at once, as live a possible for both games. I thought, OK, now if I am going to watch the Vikings as the high priority game, I want them on one tuner. I want to see what the Packers are doing in their game on the second tuner. I set up the other 4 tuners available to record other games. As soon as I realized I was stuck with a 30 minute buffer on the HR10 I decided to forget that and record both games and switch back and forth between the recordings, rather than the live buffer. It really didn't take that much longer, and I knew I wasn't going to miss anything in the Packer game if I stayed on the Viking game too long. So I decided that to heck with this, I am just going to set up my highest two priority games to record on the HR20 downstairs, the next two hightest to record on the HR10 sitting next to it, and the next two on the HR20 upstairs. I then put the next most interesting match up on the H20 which displays on my computer monitor and just glance at that occasionally.

    I realize that the DLB afficiandos(sp?) are going to say, well that is not how I want to watch my games. I feel your pain I guess.

    Earl says that they decided to design it the way it was for a reason. I think it was because in their research they asked guys like Earl and I who don't use the feature rather than people who used DLB a lot. Did they have a good sample of customers in their research. Who knows?

    As Earl has said they didn't want a TIVO, they wanted a DirecTV™ HR20. This is how they designed it, so that is how it is. I know folks won't like that, but hey that is their choice. They left the cupholders off their machine. If you want cupholders on your machine, you have other options to bring TV to your home. I don't think it is that important a feature to the majority of their customers that they will lose much business to other providers because they don't have DLB. You can be sure if they do, they will design DLB into the next version. I don't think it is going to happen.

    Another tid bit. With all these games to watch, I never get them all watched before the next week comes. I record a lot of college games too.

    Just my two cents worth as one that had not used a DVR(other than a piece of junk Moxi that Charter let me use for awhile) before last Feb. BTW, I have no idea if the Moxi had DLB or not. In 4 months it never came up as a subject. :lol:

    OK, be kind. Do not flame me. I am just expressing my thoughts based on my experiences the last 9 months. :lol:
     
  12. jahgreen

    jahgreen Godfather

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    Dec 15, 2006
    ADVANCE DISCLAIMER: I'd like to have DLB. BUT:

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: nothing statistically significant can be gleaned from any poll on this board, due to selection bias at many levels.

    Therefore whether 5% of DBSTalk members is a "significant" number depends on the eye of the beholder. To DirecTV it's not significant, to you it is.

    If you want to persuade me that the demand for DLB is statistically significant, you'd have to hire a polling expert to conduct a random sample of all HR20 owners.
     
  13. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

    8,761
    42
    Sep 20, 2004
    Galactic Empire
    No, it's NOT false. The HR20's UI is better, and I'm glad, but DLB is significant and better than NO DLB; therefore, your statement falls.


    Then stop posting here as an instigator.


    No, it's not "superior in every way." The lack of DLB is one area in which it is innately inferior. It may be better in most ways, but not "in every way." Once again your generalizations are incorrect, but that doesn't surprise me.
     
  14. Fenway

    Fenway Legend

    111
    0
    Aug 24, 2007
    We are recent converts to D* - coming from Charter and the Moxi box. Yes, the Moxi did have DLB. I don't know about the pause and then switch. What we did was simply switch back and forth between 2 channels, and if something had happened we would rewind. We loved it, but didn't know the proper terminology until I found it on this forum. We also had DLB with Dish a few years back.

    I just figured all DVRs had this feature - if I had known that D* didn't have it, we might have made a different choice.
     
  15. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

    8,761
    42
    Sep 20, 2004
    Galactic Empire
    Don't tell that to boltjames, because YOU DON'T NEED THAT FEATURE AND YOU WILL LIKE NOT HAVING IT!!!
     
  16. woj027

    woj027 Icon

    935
    8
    Sep 3, 2007
    Portland, OR
    I miss it dearly......so I come here to cry.:(
     
  17. christo76

    christo76 Godfather

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    Sep 12, 2006
    It does buffer both tuners 24/7. You can record from that buffer if you know what channel its on. I have posted in here a couple times and made other threads showing how. The trick is knowing what channel the second tuner/buffer is still on.

    Example, find a program that is going to end in a few minutes. Tune to it and record that current show (we'll say its on channel A). Now tune to a different channel (channel B). In a few minutes, the program on channel A will be done recording. Wait another few minutes (or more if you like), then go into Guide, and press record on Channel A. It will start recording from the beginning of that new current program.

    So its not really adding any more processing power to perform DLB, because it currently does it. We just can't access it.
     
  18. christo76

    christo76 Godfather

    265
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    Sep 12, 2006
    Mike, (no flame, don't worry)

    For me, DLB was found by accident very quickly. Simply pressing down, flipped it to the other tuner, so there was no 'setting up'.

    As for game usage. I agree the 30 min buffer COULD be annoying, but I never ran into it much during games. Personally I used it because my 'add' wouldn't let me wait till it built up any buffer. So I would start watching the Packers game, once a commercial started, I paused and pressed 'down', and start watching the Vikings game that was paused at the start. I can then 30-sec skip between plays until a commercial break, then pause and press down again to return to the Pack, where I skip through commercials, and do the same 30-sec skip between plays.

    Never get close to the 30-min buffer between commercials. Not too mention the half-time break. I would be able to catch 2 full games in the time of 1, and never have to worry about catching any(many) spoilers.

    But, I also didn't have an HR10, just the SD. SO it may be different and more difficult.

    I do enjoy the HR20, and now that I have dumped the ST, I have no problems with 2 games. I simply record whatever game(s) I want, then go find other things to do while it builds up some time. Then I watch them later and just make sure I do look at highlights or pop-up scores.



     
  19. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

    707
    0
    Sep 3, 2006
    No, it's not.

    Internet message board memberships relative to consumer products are 70% angry people, 20% happy people, and 10% newbs who are thinking of buying the product and have no point of view yet.

    5% of an audience skewed heavily towards complainers, ex-Tivo lovers forced to the dark side by content, video afficianado's, and hacker/modders is a ridiculously small amount of the total HR20 population. It completely supports my position too, so keep bringing it up.

    Your HR10 angst is clouding your judgement of the obvious. The HR20 is not designed for you. It's designed for Mr. & Mrs. Didn't-Set-My-VCR-Clock. Those people, them, those people, they're the reason your beloved DLB isn't included in the D* DVR strategy. Those people just want to hit "guide" and watch a show in HD or hit "record" and watch that show later. D* is catering to them now, not you. Tweaky is out, mass is in, and you've got to grasp that. You've been asked by BMW to enjoy your Camry. Sorry.

    BJ
     
  20. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

    707
    0
    Sep 3, 2006
    LOL.

    I think I've finally figured you guys out. You went from a $1000 HR10 designed for the tweaky videophile to a free HR20 designed for Mr. & Mrs. Didn't-Set-My-VCR-Clock and you wonder why you were forgotten.

    It's like being upset at Toyota for not building a 300 horsepower twin-turbo Camry with a retractible hardtop that handles like a slotcar in a German factory they don't own.

    The D* HD DVR has become commoditized. It's gone from a rich man's plaything to the defacto standard set top box for the "Save $20 per month if you join now!" HD newb.

    What you guys want is a step-up, high-end, videophile connessieur D* HD DVR that's designed for you. Unfortunately, like the cellphone industry, you're going to be waiting a long time for that. With the explosion of HDTV's, D* can barely ship enough of its existing HR20/1's to satisfy demand. The iPhone, remember, only came into being when the mobile market was a decade mature and saturated.

    Enjoy your Camry. It's not a BMW. D* won't build you a BMW until 2017. I'm truly sorry.

    BJ
     
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