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Dual Buffers

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Que, Aug 17, 2006.

Dual Buffers

  1. A must have!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Don't really care about it.

    94.1%
  3. Like the option but, Ok if it's not there.

    5.9%
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  1. ShiningBengal

    ShiningBengal Godfather

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    That's really good for you, Lord Vader. However, your experience appears not to be typical. I have had a few faster downloads, too. But it appears that the speed is very dependent on the server load at the moment.

    My DSL connection is not at fault. My house is 1-1/2 blocks from the telco CO and it tests consistently at close to 7 Mb/sec.

    I am aware that a small fraction of subscribers have faster DL speeds, but it appears not to matter in most cases.

    By the way, how do you know the size of your download? And what is it that you have found compelling enough to bother to download?:rolleyes:

    The fact is, if DirecTV is going to call this feature "on demand" you shouldn't have to wait for it to download at all. That isn't what "on demand" means.

    DirecTV has recognized that their service is not "on demand" by color coding the progress bar on your download. It turns green at 67% meaning it is safe (in most cases) to start playing a show at that time. However, you can still outrun the download when it is at 90%.

    You still can't download any HD content. Why not? Might it be that you will never be able to get HD over the Internet because it would take most viewers more than a day to download the 15 GB file typical of a 90 minute movie?

    If we do get HD "on demand" content, it will probably be from one of the new satellites.

    In which case, you would not need the VOD "on demand" service.
     
  2. ShiningBengal

    ShiningBengal Godfather

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    My statement is based on the fact that VOD uses a recording stream that is in addition to what is used for recording shows from the satellite. DLB also uses one more recording stream than SLB would. It is also based on the fact that DirecTV is tight lipped as far as stating what the specific reason is that they cannot/will not provide this feature.

    Of course there has to be a technical reason we can't have it, and Earl has consistently alluded to the fact that he knows what that reason is, and that he is not permitted to say why. That is another strong reason to surmise that the design of the HR20/21 precludes DLB.

    Every other DVR DirecTV has offered had DLB. No other DVR they have offered DID have VOD.

    That is the basis for my statement. Do I absolutely know for sure that VOD is the reason for no DLB? No.

    But if I hear hoofbeats, I do not look for Zebras.
     
  3. Drew2k

    Drew2k New Member

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    Right now the HR20 can record two satellite streams and the DOD stream over the network all at the same time, so there can be three streams writing to the hard drive at once. Based on that, I'd say DOD is not the reason we don't have DLB. I don't know what the reason is, but I don't think it's DOD.
     
  4. ShiningBengal

    ShiningBengal Godfather

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    If you had one guess, what else might it be?

    I have thought long and hard about this issue, and I always come back to DOD. It, and the lack of DLB are unique to the HR20/21 series of DVR's. That alone is suggestive that the two features cannot coexist in these models without major re-engineering.

    No knowledgeable source has officially stated or even implied that something other than DOD is the reason for no DLB. Until they do, my bet will remain on DOD as it is more plausible than any other reason I can think of.
     
  5. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    No problem with thinking that .. Just add "I think" to your statement next time and all is good :) Your explanation is as plausible as any other I've heard.
     
  6. Drew2k

    Drew2k New Member

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    I'll take TWO guesses:

    (1) Maybe we don't have DLB because it would interfere with some mysterious new feature or service that we are not aware of that DIRECTV has had on the drawing boards since the inception of the R15 and hopes to deliver "some day." What it could be, I don't know, but if there is a new feature that would be one plausible (of many) that DIRECTV has asked Earl not to share with us the reason for no DLB.

    (2) Maybe it's too embarrassing for DIRECTV to reveal why there is no DLB. Maybe before the R15 was introduced they had a researcher or lawyer who insisted that there were legal reasons that DLB could not be included in the design, so DIRECTV designed the R15 and subsequent plans for the HR20 around NOT having DLB in place. They spent countless hours and dollars on a design that they found out later could have had DLB, and it's embarrassing to them to realize how much time and money they wasted.

    I could continue making guesses, but my theory is that the reason we don't have DLB is either a very good one (like guess 1 above) or a very lame one (like guess 2 above).

    I sincerely doubt that DIRECTV would be "embarrassed" or that "embarrassment" is the reason we still don't have DLB. They are a corporation that has a very public testing program where, from the long view, it's easy to say DIRECTV has learned from past mistakes and has no qualms about going "public" with new features before those features are released nationally.

    So I think the more likely reason is that there is some new feature that would prevent DLB, in its truest form, from being implemented. Who knows ... maybe DIRECTV is re-engineering both the new feature and the existing HR20 software to try to make DLB and the new feature exist, and that is yet another reason why we haven't seen DLB?

    Anyway, just my guesses ... and poor ones at that. :)
     
  7. ShiningBengal

    ShiningBengal Godfather

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    Jan 24, 2003
    Your exception is duly noted. :)
     
  8. ShiningBengal

    ShiningBengal Godfather

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    Your guesses are, like mine, conjecture. Time will tell whose guesses were poor and whose were not.

    If I had to choose one of the two guesses you came up with, it would be #2, primarily since it fits nicely with my own theory.

    If I were DirecTV, I would be extremely embarrassed that they opted for a feature as lame as DOD ("Dead on Delivery?") at the expense of one as useful and popular as DLB.
     
  9. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps what ever re-engineering is required has been completed with the SLB PAUSE retention fix we're testing in the current CE.

    I just started a DOD download, and then simulated DLB's by recording CBS HD and PLAYING it from the LIST while pausing NBC HD in the LIVE buffer. I'm hitting PREV to toggle back and forth, and all is working as expected.

    This indicates to me that there is no technical reason DLB's couldn't be implemented now, if it's someting DirecTV wanted to do. In my mind, it should simply be a matter of "auto-starting" a record of the background tuner if it's available, and teaching PREV to toggle between tuners, instead of one tuner and the last PLAYLIST playback. Or leave PREV "as is" and designate another key that would only "prev" between tuners, like the DOWN ARROW on the HR10.

    Just my .02. /steve
     
  10. ShiningBengal

    ShiningBengal Godfather

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    You may be right, Steve. But your explanation of how the new "fixed" SLB works begs the question: Why not true DLB?
     
  11. Drew2k

    Drew2k New Member

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    Because they're still working on it ...
     
  12. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    I don't think so, Drew. They have the technical capability to implement DLB right now. It's just that DirecTV chooses not to implement it, the reasons why known to them and to Earl, who has repeatedly said he cannot divulge said reasons.
     
  13. homerdodge

    homerdodge New Member

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    Phillipsburg...
    I know - Santa's bringing it.
    Yipee!!!
     
  14. Drew2k

    Drew2k New Member

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    I think the argument can be made that until the current CE test cycle started, there was no hope for DLB because often you couldn't watch a recording from the playlist without the live buffer being lost, and you couldn't pause the live buffer to watch a recording and then return to the live buffer to resume playback from the paused position. Now that this functionality is in place, and it's still being worked on, we have greater hope for DLB, but it still can't happen until all issues related with the SLB are identified, resolved, and locked down. That's why I answered "because they're still working on it [SLB]" to Shining Bengal when he asked, "why not DLB?"

    Like posted in the "Forget about DLB - fix SLB instead" thread, we can't put the cart before the horse. Or another one, you can't walk before learn to crawl... with the SLB fixes currently being tested, we're still crawling ... :)
     
  15. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    But your theory would mean that they currently do not have the technical ability to implement DLB (because of the SLB-related issues), when it's been stated that they do have said capability but just choose not to do so.
     
  16. Drew2k

    Drew2k New Member

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    I don't see it that way. I'm talking about whether or not we had hopes of seeing DLB and I'm posting the few known facts: SLB wasn't working; it's currently being worked on; one day the SLB updates will be released nationally.

    Having technical capability is quite different from actually utilizing that capability and implementing a solution, whether it's for SLB, DLB, or anything else. Before the DOD service was introduced the DVRs were technically able to record three independent streams to the hard drive, but it wasn't until we received the software and DIRECTV turned on the service that we could actually do it.

    That the HR20 is technically capable of having DLB is not in disupte ... whether there are updates implemented that enable DLB is a different maatter, and in my opinion, it makes no sense to work on DLB untill SLB is fixed, and that is currently in progress. That's all I'm saying.
     
  17. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

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    Sep 3, 2006
    I know Santa and he's not working on DLB. Nope, not the elves either.

    BJ
     
  18. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    Now that's interesting. First official confirmation I've seen that DLB is a TiVo patented feature! /steve
     
  19. ToddinVA

    ToddinVA Godfather

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    Mar 5, 2006
    That's nonsense though since most other dual-tuner DVR's have DLB, in addition to TiVo.
     
  20. ub1934

    ub1934 Icon

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    UpState NY
    We all know that it's just like them telling me that the 3 mo. free on the HD Pack is to give them more time to put it back with the HD access where it should be. ;)
     
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