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DVR 510 announced and monthly fee!

Discussion in 'Standard Definition Receiver Support Forum' started by boba, Jul 29, 2003.

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  1. Aug 5, 2003 #441 of 485
    Chris Freeland

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    Give up, I have. Some people here just want to cry and moan. To understand what is obvious by your math requires some people to think. :shrug:
     
  2. Aug 5, 2003 #442 of 485
    DanielD

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    I WAS going to buy a 921. Not now...
     
  3. Aug 5, 2003 #443 of 485
    Bob Haller

    Bob Haller Banned User

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    About cable buying DBS boxes. They figure if you cancelled service, and they often take the receivers and dish that you will not qualify as a new sub so going back will be coistly and thus discourage churn. Nobody likes churn not even cable.
     
  4. Aug 5, 2003 #444 of 485
    Lyle_JP

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    The key phrase there is "new subs". All us people who are pissed off... we're current subs. There will be no hardware subsidies for us, no free or near-free receivers, but we'll still get stuck with the DVR fee for our premium upgrades.

    As for the arguement "the Dishplayer had a fee", I'd like to point out that the Dishplayer, like Tivo and UltimateTV, had a third party involved in the software end of things, in this case Microsoft. With these Dish DVRs, the only "service" they're really providing is what they already provide, namely a 7-day program guide. But now they'd like to charge us a monthly fee for it. :nono:
     
  5. Aug 5, 2003 #445 of 485
    HTguy

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    Wrong.

    Someone heard that the DVR510 has a MSRP of $299 and started this uproar with the idea that current subs will have to pay this plus the DVR fees. Well, it's true that if they have them on the shelf at Sears in a few weeks and someone who doesn't know better buys one over the counter he will be in for a surprise.

    But there will certainly be Upgrade Promos so existing subs so that they can get newer DVRs for a considerable discount especially if its tied to a programming comittment.

    Look at it this way:

    On the current FREE DISH Promotion a new customer can get a $149 DP301 system for free with a 12mo agreement for at least AT50 or he can pay $200 diference for a PVR508.

    On the current PVR UPG Promotion an existing customer can get a PVR508 for $199 with a 12mo agreement for at least AT100.

    The only real difference is AT50 vs AT100 to qualify.

    Next month a new customer can get a DVR510 "free" under the same terms.

    So why wouldn't an existing customer get a comperable deal when they amend the PVR UPG Promo like Jim said they would?

    Not that you necessarily want a DVR510 anyway. But with the fee policy we can anticipate the same structure of pricing on the 522 & 921.

    Got it?
     
  6. Aug 5, 2003 #446 of 485
    pjm877

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    Jeez, it looks like some of you guys still don't get it.

    The DVR fees are a way to lower the cost of the hardware. In fact, for new subs the DVR510 will be free with a 12mo agreement. And with a 24mo agreement they can get another receiver free at the same time & get it all installed free, too.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So they are going to give me a 921 for FREE... and at the end of... lets say... 18 months, it is mine to do whatever I want to... and I too want to be able to replace my HDD when it goes bad..... and to get your deal I have to leave DISH... wait awhile... then come back as a new sub... I don't think so... DISH you reading this....

    I think I would do the RETAIL and no fee's.... thanks you very much... and as to install... to do it the way I did it would cost in the 100's... none of this wires along the outside of the house... put the switch in the attic and the wires down the walls...

    Cable is starting to look better and better each day... now if they have a dual tuner PVR/DVR Box, I think I am there.... bye bye DISH...
     
  7. Aug 6, 2003 #447 of 485
    Lee L

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    HTGuy,

    All we are doing is speculating here and unless you have inside info, you don't "know" there are any upgrade deals coming. In the past, when E* told the existing sub about a great "upgrade" deal it was no better than what Joe Blow off the street got and usually much worse.

    They announced the 921 pricing 17 days before the DVR fee. Is it your speculation that in that time, E* completely changed their pricing strategy? If so, why havent they even mentioned to Scott that the 921 would not be as much as they announced on the Tech Chat?
     
  8. Aug 6, 2003 #448 of 485
    DarrellP

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    HTGuy must work for Dish, he just doesn't "get it".

    I don't care about getting a subsidy or cheaper equipment. I don't want to pay a DVR fee, PERIOD. Dish's equipment is not good enough to justify a DVR fee and probably never will be, plus they don't pay anyone for the rights to this technology, so where is the justification to charge more than TIVO?
     
  9. Aug 6, 2003 #449 of 485
    HTguy

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    Well, I know there will be "enhancements" to the PVR UPG Promo that ends 8/31 because JD said so on the chat and they put it in the memo they emailed me the other day.

    And why, prey tell, should an existing sub expect a better deal than Mr. Blow gets off the street? He was like Mr. Blow is once, wasn't he? And he got a new cust promo then that cost E* $$$s didn't he?

    I guess you think DISH should just hand out new hardware everytime someone wants the latest & greatest. How long do think they'd stay in business with that policy?

    BTW, the proposed 921 price they mentioned on the tech chat (which most of us knew anyway) was given by the VP of engineering. He is often unaware of what the marketing team is up to which has led to similar misunderstandings.

    I expect that when the "DVR921" ships it will have the $999 MSRP just as the DVR510 has an announced $299MSRP. I just don't expect that any potential 921 owner will have to pay that.

    And I think that once you get the facts from the horse's mouth on upcoming chats you will realize that all this uproar was based on incomplete & wrong information.
     
  10. Aug 6, 2003 #450 of 485
    Jacob S

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    And for those that already got the PVR UPG deal that wants a larger hard drive or two tuners in one receiver have to pay a fee even if they were to pay retail price for the receiver? Those that done got the deal would be out of luck. They should allow one to trade in a receiver towards a new or remanufactured receiver that is more up to date. I guess people could just sell the receiver instead of trading it in to make up for some of the hardware cost instead in which may be a better choice anyways.
     
  11. Aug 6, 2003 #451 of 485
    DarrellP

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    I'll gladly pay $1k for a 921 IF THERE ARE NO DVR FEES ASSOCIATED WITH IT, otherwise, Sorry Charlie, you may as well throw it overboard and make a boat anchor out of it.
     
  12. Aug 6, 2003 #452 of 485
    Ken_F

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    In the other 921 Q&A thread, Dish indicated that it would be offering guide information (possibly 9 days) for local DTV/HDTV channels received with an antenna. For me, at least, this service would justify $4.99/mo.

    However, I still would not pay $4.99-$9.99/mo for Dish's PVR service, as it exists today.
     
  13. Aug 6, 2003 #453 of 485
    Darkman

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    Do not forget - the more subscribe - the less DVR service fee will be,
    With "Subscirbe it ALL" - the FEE is waved - NO FEE at ALL :)

    Bulk discount - so to speak i suppose :D
     
  14. Aug 6, 2003 #454 of 485
    Bob Haller

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    If E were smart there will be lots of backpedling, stating you miss understood, and things like that.

    Considering the hatred or extreme dislike this fee generated.
     
  15. Aug 6, 2003 #455 of 485
    Mark Holtz

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    I thought I might bring up one point that noone else has brought up... the cost of a DVR for an existing customer. Everyone knows that the best deals are when you sign up, so we can't take that into account. But, what about Joe subscriber who already has an account?

    Here's the pricing I got online for EXISTING customers (and remember, a stock HDVR2 comes with a 40GB hard drive and two tuners):

    Orbitsat - Hughes HDVR2 - $199.95
    Orbitsat - Hughes HDVR2 upgraded to 105 Hours - $399
    Orbitsat - Phillips DSR-7000 upgraded to 220 Hours - $549

    ExpertSatellite - DirecTivo - $249

    ValueElectronics - HDVR 2 - $239
    -> Add $250 for 120MB hard drive upgrade

    RapidSatellite - Hughes HDVR2 - $269
    RapidSatellite - Hughes HDVR2 upgraded to 105 Hours - $499

    How about Dish Customers? Lets see what they have in the PVR department:

    Dish Depot - 508 (60 Hours, Single Tuner) - $279
    Dish Depot - 510 (80 Hours, Single Tuner) - $299
    Dish Depot - 522 (80 Hours, Dual Tuner) - $???
    Dish Depot - 721 (90 Hours, Dual Tuner) - $529

    These prices are from various Internet dealers, and may or may not including shipping and handling.

    So, for the price of a single tuner DVR from Dish, we have have a dual tuner DVR from DirecTV with, as stock, comes with a smaller hard drive plus a one year commitment to programming at Total Choice or above. But that DVR can easily be upgraded, while Dish's DVRs hard drives are not upgradable at all.

    And Dish wants HOW MUCH for a single tuner DVR service fee? :hurah:
     
  16. Aug 6, 2003 #456 of 485
    rtt2

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    The so called "PVR UPG" promo - is that an abbreviation or a computer code E* uses? What I am trying to understand is if I call up looking for this deal what do I ask for. Do I say P-V-R U-P-G or ...........?
     
  17. Aug 7, 2003 #457 of 485
    xgrep

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    You're making the situation far more complicated than it is, and it's you who don't get it. For me, the decision had nothing to do with anything as clever as figuring out why Charlie's move is such a reasonable deal for E*. It's a simple question of arithmetic and my monthly bill.

    I currently have two receivers and subscribe to my locals and one int'l a la carte. My monthly bill (less PPVs if any) comes to $26. I planned to get a 921 and add DiscoveryHD (and the occasional HD PPV), and eventually a 5xx.

    Under the currently proposed DVR fee, I would see my monthly bill go up by $20 just for the DVR fees. That's just way too much. Maybe if I were already on a big package like AEP, where there would be no increase, or AT150 with a $10 total bump, the difference wouldn't be that much. But I can't "throw away" $20 a month because Charlie knows he can get away with it. I didn't cut the competition any slack on this just because I'm annoyed by E*. I priced out D*, Comcast, and a couple of other options, and until Charlie showed up with the $20 hit, E* was about even with Comcast. Now it's a no-brainer.

    What about this am I "not getting"?

    x
     
  18. Aug 7, 2003 #458 of 485
    Karl Foster

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    The absolute killer to me is the PER RECEIVER DVR fee. Did they do NO research when they came up with this plan? Do they not see the competition chrages per account, not per receiver? Hloly crap!

    I know HTGuy will justify this somehow, but this is just a plain stupid move on their part. An AT50 subscriber with two DVR's will double his bill just in DVR fees and additional STB fees. I admit I pay an obsene amount for UTV service ($9.95 per month), but it covers all three of my UTV's, and I only paid $39 per box for the first two that I orders - as an existing customer. If they are going to charge a DVR fee - lets see some real software improvements, and make it a per-account rather than per DVR fee. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but it is just a plain old dumb idea.
     
  19. Aug 7, 2003 #459 of 485
    Lee L

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    HTGuy,

    I never meant to say that I expected the same deal as a new sub, I have no problem with that. I was referencing the past "deals" on 508's where E* would say, "since you have been such a good long term customer with a high level package, come buy this 508 for the extra special price of $199." In fact, any current sub could get that even if they subbed to AT50 for 6 months. Even worse when they tried to act like they were giving DishPlayer owners a great deal on a 508 as goodwill for the problems and in fact it was the very same deal Joe Blow with a 301 and AT50 could get.

    Here is the way I see it, maybe you can tell me different. On the Tech Chat, the price of $999 for existing subs was announced, 17 days later they said new DVR's will have a fee of $10 a month. For an existing sub, the 921 will now be as much as $1359 for the first 3 years, no?

    Oh, and BTW, I never got a receiver at more than a tiny discount. I paid $450 for a 4500, 3500 and Dish 300 in 1996 or 1997, bought DishPlayer one and a Dish 500 in 99 for the full price at the time of $299 or $399 IIRC, bought DP 2 a couple of months later for $249. In early 2001 I Bought a 6000 for the low low price of $549 on the web and managed to snag an 8VSB adapter for $129. In 2002 I actually managed to get a free SW64 from E* because of the locals on 61.5 deal, then I bought an 8PSK adapter earlier this year for $49 when it was looking like ESPN-HD would be coming to E* and they had the thing on sale the month before ESPN was supposed to launch (interesting timing there) and after all the adapter was what was needed to get "all the new HDTV programming from Dish Network." So there you go, $1825 worth of dish network equipment over a little more than 5 years and I have always had at least AT100, HBO and SHO and have done all of my own installation. Currently I have AT150, locals, supers, SHO, and HBO, have 3 recievers hooked up and pay just a touch under $100 a month and will still have to pay $4.95 a month for the DVR fee since I don't have AEP.

    I guess that is the crux of the issue for many is the nickel and diming and recent changes in strategy causing us to buy new equipment then being told we are getting a good deal when we can tell by the feeling in our rear what is really happening. Please forgive me if I am a little hesitant to beleive that things will all work out in the end without some evidence to the contrary. Hopefully, they will address some of this stuff on the Charlie Chat and I will be all wrong and we will all get a good deal. If so, I will be more than happy to come on here and tell you that you were right and I was way wrong about it.
     
  20. Aug 7, 2003 #460 of 485
    Jacob S

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    Charlie would say "If you can afford the DVR you can afford the fee". Maybe we should ask "What would Charlie do?
     
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