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DVR 510 announced and monthly fee!

Discussion in 'Standard Definition Receiver Support Forum' started by boba, Jul 29, 2003.

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  1. Jul 29, 2003 #81 of 485

    Mike123abc Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    Jul 19, 2002
    It depends on the deal for the reciever. If a reciever costs $249 and they give it to your free and charge you $10/month, in 25 months you would have it paid for and you would be worse off under this deal (at 50 customer). If you pay $5/month (AT100) then it would take 50 months... over 4 years, you probably come out ahead on this because of the time value of money (you got the $$ in your pocket and give to dish slowly). You come out way ahead if you are AEP customer and pay $0. If you have AEP a couple years then drop down you still are ahead.

    IF you get the 921 for $750 instead of $999 the above applys too. Now if they are going to charge $999 for the 921 that will make a lot of people upset since they expected to pay $999 and no fee.
  2. Jul 29, 2003 #82 of 485

    RAD Well-Known Member

    Aug 5, 2002
    If Dish made the $4.99 charge ONLY for new DVR's that are 'leased' vs. purchased I don' that it's that bad. But if you have to purchase the box, then pay a monthly subscription for programming, then an additional receiver fee then the DVR charge that's an idea that should have been shot down before it even left the meeting room.

    Between garbage like this, the 6000 receiver problems that occured last week, the never ending delay on the 921 (will they give that away for free and charge only $4.99 a month?) and no definite date for SuperDish and new HD why don't they just send everyone the phone number for DirecTV in their next bill.
  3. Jul 29, 2003 #83 of 485

    Mike123abc Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    Jul 19, 2002
    It depends on the deal for the reciever. If a reciever costs $249 and they give it to your free and charge you $10/month, in 25 months you would have it paid for and you would be worse off under this deal (at 50 customer). If you pay $5/month (AT100) then it would take 50 months... over 4 years, you probably come out ahead on this because of the time value of money (you got the $$ in your pocket and give to dish slowly). You come out way ahead if you are AEP customer and pay $0. If you have AEP a couple years then drop down you still are ahead.

    IF you get the 921 for $750 instead of $999 the above applys too. Now if they are going to charge $999 for the 921 that will make a lot of people upset since they expected to pay $999 and no fee.
  4. Jul 29, 2003 #84 of 485
    Bob Haller

    Bob Haller Banned User

    Mar 24, 2002
    HO HO D phone number in next bill. Kinda on target lately.

    Now were told this is a marketing decision. Evidently they are trying to encourage more folks to buy better packages. Problem is this appears more like a hammer to squash customners rather than something nice to encourage the purchase.

    Looks more like a beancounter decision to me, looking out for the bottom line profit only while ignoring the big picture.

    You know comcast here advetises the channels like goodlife they carry that sat doesnt. If marketing we really smart they would get those missing channels added, theres not a lot ands numbers sell.

    Getting all subs a easy cheap upgrade path would help too.

    Penalizing customers makes them want to leave, is THAT what they want?

    I think this goes back to the horrid treatment E has given DP owners.

    If they tolerate it why not?
  5. Jul 29, 2003 #85 of 485

    boba Hall Of Fame

    May 23, 2003
    Actually they don't know it yet but they did send me Directv's phone number last Sunday. With the start of the NFL Sunday Ticket promotion I got rid of my sad DISH subscription. I am just waiting for my $149.00 PVR508 with no commitment to arrive before I turn off their lousy picture and software.
  6. Jul 29, 2003 #86 of 485

    toad57 Legend

    Apr 23, 2002
    This new DVR fee is a part of Echostar's secret Profit Prevention Program.
  7. Jul 29, 2003 #87 of 485

    DTV Guest

    And at a rumored price of $599.
  8. Jul 29, 2003 #88 of 485

    DTV Guest

    How do you figure that one? The 510 might be a little cheaper but it is only a single tuner and cannot be upgraded.
  9. Jul 29, 2003 #89 of 485

    DTV Guest

    So does the new DVR fee cover all your DVR's or just one? If it's $5-15 per unit then Dish has problems. It's bad enough to charge for their buggy software but at least DirecTV only charges you the PVR fee once and it covers all your DirecTivos.
  10. Jul 29, 2003 #90 of 485
    Chris Freeland

    Chris Freeland Hall Of Fame

    Mar 23, 2002
    This is a good deal for new subs because they are getting a DVR510 and 301 for $49 down and a $49 credit on their first bill, for many it will be worth paying $0, $4.98 or $9.99 and a 2-year commitment for this deal. This will not effect current DVR 501/508 and 721 subs, you will still get your DVR service for Free. For us who want to upgrade to a new DVR, this really Sucks, unless E* offers us some heavily discounted deal, better then the one they offer now, which I suspect will eventually happen, probably also with a 2-year commitment and Credit-card auto pay. A lifetime subscription option would be nice too. If D* would add Chattanooga locals I would consider switching for a D*TIVO.
  11. Jul 29, 2003 #91 of 485

    gcutler Hall Of Fame

    Mar 23, 2002
    But do they have the manpower to fix all the problems in a reasonable amount of time, and will they after they start charging? How many will stick around to find out???
  12. Jul 29, 2003 #92 of 485

    csschrot Cool Member

    May 1, 2003
    Ok, I may be in the minority on this. For new customers I don't have a problem with this. Most of the new customers come in and are not happy with the cost of getting a DVR (PVR). This may help pull in new customers that would walk away or just took the 301 but wasn't happy about it.

    However with that said. I think that the existing customer that buy a add on receiver or buy one as a replacement shouldn't be charged the monthly fee. I doubt that Dish will drop the price enough to justify a monthly fee. For example the 921 is suppose to be $999. AT that price I shouldn't be paying any monthly fee!!!!!
  13. Jul 29, 2003 #93 of 485

    reedl Mentor

    May 10, 2002
    This is cross posted from the other site. I just wanted evertybody to see what a long time very high dollar E* subscriber (the type of customer that E* I am sure wants to keep) has to say about this terrible "idea":

    Even though I technically would not pay anything using the current price points (I currently have the Everything pack), I think this is probably the stupidest thing that E* has ever done in the history of the company if the following assumptions are true:

    1) The monthly price is per unit.

    2) The initial price of the unit is the same as before (in other words, you still need to pay $300 for a receiver anyways)

    3) It goes on forever on the monthly fee.

    The only way this could possibly be acceptable to most people is to do one of the following:

    1) Make the price a monthly charge (pro-rated as before), but make the receiver price lower. In other words, the receiver is either free or a token $20.00 or the like. This means you basically rent the receiver. Allow a "buyout" (kind of like a lifetime subscription) which gives you receiver without monthly fees.

    2) Make the charge per account instead of per receiver. Even this is pretty stupid because most people only have two or three receivers, and this would not save them money.

    E* have prided itself on having PVR(no wait DVR's) that are free of montly fees.

    In other words, given what we know right now, E* is making the biggest mistake in their history. Never mind the buggy software, never mind the two dishes required for all locals, this by and large going to scare away many potential customers. When they see the monthly fees of $15 per each additional receiver they will not choose to go with E* but instead go with cable which is "only" $8.99 per additional digital outlet or free for additional analog outlets which typically gives you the basic cable channels that most people watch anyways.

    E* is shooting themselves in the foot on this one, and had better examine its strategy if it wishes to compete in the marketplace, because I would bet anyone a nice dinner somewhere that this will lower E*'s rapid increases in customers that have existed for many years. People do not like to be "nickel and dimed" and this is exactly what E* is doing here.

    Even the DP was a price per account no matter how many of them you had activated.

    All I can say is that this will increase the prices on used 50x receivers for sure.

    (End of Rant, sorry!)

  14. Jul 29, 2003 #94 of 485

    ocnier Godfather

    May 8, 2003
    As many of you know there has been much excitement by many members over the hopefully fall/holiday release of the PVR 921 and many other soon to be released receivers. I personally was very pleased about it (in fact totally stoked). However, my hopes and admiration for E* has gone down the tubes after reading the news in the pvr forum that E will start charging PVR monthly fees like tivo. I will not post a rant about this because the other thread pretty sums it. I offer this to E* if they are totally about the allmighty dollar and not the customer: "I offer a compromise"-

    How about instead of charging $10 a month in DVR fees for equipment I will buy. How about instead, changing the fee structure so that it reads $10 a month only if the customer drops below the top 100 or 150 package tiers even past contract time for new/existing customers. This I think is way more reasonable than the everything pak considering that top 100 and 150 customers account for more than 63% of E* customer base. I think this would be a win win situation for both parties considering that the majority of DVR customers remain happy with costeffective bills and that fact that E* can ensure obeisance of it's customer base for main stream programming packages that would not decline below a certain leve. The present customer plan puts $4.99 a month charge for top 100 & 150 package customers. I am presently with D* (long football story), but I was looking forward to switching back to E* with baited breath until I read the DVR posts today. The only reason I don't post this to the PVR side of this forum is because I think this affects E* as a whole, because lost customers mean higher rates and eventual bankruptcy for the company. Please submit any thoughts on the matter. :eek2:
  15. Jul 29, 2003 #95 of 485

    SParker Active Member

    Apr 27, 2002
    You know guys this is really going to make me re-think my future 921 purchase. If I am going to pay $999 and on top of that $4.99 a month FORGET IT!

  16. Jul 29, 2003 #96 of 485

    tampa8 Godfather/Supporter

    Mar 30, 2002
    If Direct is not charging for TC+ customers, I would go so far as to say Dish could not charge for Top 150 & America's Choice, charge $4.99 for top100, and $9.99 for Top 50. But, with an exception. If you buy the top of the line 921, then either no charge at all, or at least not for Top 100 and up. If you are buying the 921 you are in it for the long haul in most cases. They will get your business for several years. I would think Dish would want to keep that customer and not nickel and dime them to death. I cannot prove it, but I suspect most anyone getting a 921 will be subscribing to Top 100 and above, maybe Top 150 and above.
  17. Jul 29, 2003 #97 of 485

    gwynnebaer Mentor

    Jan 20, 2003
    What I see happening is fairly simple to decipher:

    1. Echostar, like its rivals DTV and cable, put a premium on new customers. Existing customers do not drive up stock or make the company grow; new customers do. That means that a business decision that is disadvantageous to existing customers, even to the point of defection, is acceptable (I'll explain why in a moment). This point can be validated in many ways, such as hardware upgrade costs for existing customers, etc.

    2. New customers of Echostar are one of three categories:
    a) cable subscribers who know everything about monthly fees but want free hardware
    b) DTV customers who have Tivo service, and are accustomed to the monthly fee for listings
    c) DTV customers who don't have Tivo service and don't have a frame of reference; however, when comparing DTV Tivo service to Echostar DVR service, they will see that both charge a monthly fee (this levels the playing field).

    Bring it together:

    Echostar knows that regardless of the category you are in, if you are new customer, you will probably not care too much about the new fee. Since Echostar's primary goal is to bring in new customers, this brings the new customers in with a revenue stream that they will live with either because they already have lived with it (Tivo converts), or because they want the hardware for free (cable subscribers), and think they are getting ahead by paying a small fee over a long period of time. Simple math will prove them wrong, but that's an established business practice that most consumers fail to notice.

    So what happens if existing customers who feel robbed become indignant and leave? Where will they go? The majority would not fall back to a scheme that does not involve digital time-shifting (ie, fall back to no PVR/DVR features), so that leaves them heading back to cable with Tivo or DTV with Tivo. They will now pay a fee just like Echostar customers will.

    So, in another year, those defections will get sick of whatever it was they switched to, and forget the bad times at Echostar but remember the good ol' days, and consider switching back. Now, again, after paying a fee for Tivo for a year, paying Echostar's fee isn't such an indignant shock, and they switch back and pay the fee anyway.

    And lo, Echostar has a new customer again (well, almost new, but close enough).

    The moral in case you're still reading at this point: You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. My advice is to stick with Echostar but fight for the features you want to see. At least feel like you're getting your money's worth.
  18. Jul 30, 2003 #98 of 485

    rh26 Mentor

    Jan 25, 2003
    Except for one fact...if I switch to a TiVo product, I'll never want to go back to inferior (features and quality) Dish DVRs!!

    BTW, I just sent this to Dish Network via their web site...

    I have just read on dbstalk.com that you have a new receiver the DVR510. A bunch more disk space is great (I have a 501 and the disk is always full). Great news!

    Then I read further that you are instating a monthly fee for the DVRs (I understand my current 501 is exempt).

    Well, I *had* been saving for a 921 as soon as it came out but apparently buying one (at $999!) will force me to invest another $5 per month (forever!). No thanks!

    When I fired the cable company, I chose Dish Network for one reason, a no monthly fee PVR. DirectTivo is (in my opinion) a better product but I decided I could live without some features to avoid a monthly fee. Also, recently my cable company has been trying to entice me back (their technology looks good but they cost more money per month).

    Well, as near as I can tell sometime around when the 921 comes out I'll be looking at my HD DVR (TiVo) options from DirecTV and my local cable deals. If Dish still has a monthly fee on PVR/DVRs at that time it's probably time to say "Goodbye Dish".

    What a shame...

  19. Jul 30, 2003 #99 of 485
    Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

    Mar 23, 2002
    Agreed with everyone above. This is a just plain stupid move, and if it happens, the masses will leave. Including me.

    I was the first one to preorder the 921 from Dish Depot. I'll be happy to give Mark my $50 to walk away from that deal to walk away from a $10 a month (in my case) fee.

    I've been a big Dish supporter for quite a while now. If Dish follows through with this plan, no more...
  20. rtt2

    rtt2 Legend

    Jan 26, 2003
    Transcript of Q1 2003 EchoStar Communications Corp. Earnings Conference Call (Relevant Part):

    KARIM ZIA: Charlie, along those lines, do you envision a point -- maybe over the next year -- where with the PVR, whether the tipping point is the 522 or some other break in the cost curve, where you make a big long-term bet on, you know, shifting your whole marketing emphasis to that product?

    CHARLIE ERGEN: I don't think you'll see us do that. I think the products complicated. I don't think it's for everybody. People who have PVR love it, whether they have a TIVO or a cable box or ours, but it's not for everybody. There's people who -- there's people who just -- I mean, this -- we are a country where when you go in somebody's house, the clock on the VCR is blinking.

    And a PVR is more complicated than that. So you have to be careful about -- about trying to put that in everybody's house. So -- and it does have more service calls, it is a moving part. It's -- you know, it -- it has the technology is changing rapidly, so I think -- I think that we have a lot of upside on PVR and we don't charge for it. For example, everybody else charges for it. There's an opportunity for us to charge for PVR.

    We're looking seriously at that we think that could make some sense under certain circumstances. And clearly it's a stickier customer, at least so far. So we think there's some opportunity there. But by no means do I think it's going to be the majority of -- of our industry customers for the foreseeable future.
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