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EchoStar: One-dish rule may cut service

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by Chris Blount, May 5, 2004.

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  1. May 5, 2004 #1 of 54
    Chris Blount

    Chris Blount Creator of DBSTalk Staff Member Administrator DBSTalk Gold Club

    Jun 22, 2001
    By Neil Roland, Bloomberg News
    May 5, 2004

    WASHINGTON - EchoStar Communications Corp. may have to cancel local television programs in as many as 30 markets if Congress bars it from making customers use two dish antennas, EchoStar Chairman Charlie Ergen said.

    "Prohibiting our plan would cause massive disruption and possibly loss of local service," Ergen told the Senate Commerce Committee in Washington, D.C. "The result will be a lose-lose for consumers and competition."

  2. May 5, 2004 #2 of 54

    mindwarp Legend

    May 18, 2003
    Well well well... Here in Puerto Rico it is the same problem. Charlie should see this as a way to attract more new customers. We need to put two antennas since it is impossible to get the 119 and 110 birds with only one antenna. And there is the other problem that the 110 is so faint that a 4' dish will get less than 80 of signal. There are tooo many customers complaining that even us when, if they air our locals, we will have to use the second dish making the acquisition of the service a more expensive solution. That is why here in Puerto Rico there are so many customers of DTV even if they have sooooooo many billing problems, they incuide as part of they lineup the locals and much more spanish channels all with only one antenna. If charlie could change some of the programming to the 119 there would be a great part of the hispanic community that would switch to dish.
  3. May 5, 2004 #3 of 54

    mindwarp Legend

    May 18, 2003
    Ah, I forgot to mention, we do have to buy the second dish. That is why actually, at DTV (I'm a subcontractor for them) we have actually the problem of customers using the DTV dish (wich is smaller) in Dish installs. and then since it can give a lower signal customers complaint a lot about the service. This part is caused by inescrupulous installers that wont explain the customers what are they installing and how will this affect their reception.
  4. May 5, 2004 #4 of 54

    TNGTony Hall Of Fame

    Mar 23, 2002

    This has nothing to do with having two dishes. It is ONLY about requiring two dishes to receive all the local channels from one market. If an entire market requires a second dish, that is okay. But having some locals from one market on one satellite and others on another is NOT okay and was never the intent of the SHVIA (equal treatment of TV stations within a market). It just didn't specifically prohibit it according to the spineless weenies at the FCC. Congress wants to take the interpretation aspect out of the new SHVIA when it comes to this.

    See ya
  5. May 5, 2004 #5 of 54

    Geronimo Native American Potentate DBSTalk Gold Club

    Mar 23, 2002
    I thought that the DISH 300 (used for side sats) and DTV Dish were both 18 inches. Or am I reading Mindwarp wrong.
  6. May 5, 2004 #6 of 54

    Orcatek Legend

    May 1, 2003
    I can see the crawl lines now-

    Congress and the FCC want us to take away your locals - contact them .....
  7. May 5, 2004 #7 of 54

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

    Apr 23, 2002
    Congress and the FCC are straining at gnats. If they want equal treatment for second-tier broadcasters, let the 2nds up their ERP to be on par with the big boys. Apparently they don't mind reaching only a few viewers OTA with their cheap-ass flea-powered transmission; why do they suddenly think they should have a right to equal carriage on DBS? They are the welfare recipients of broadcasting, fer crissake!

    And while they're at it, eliminate the obsolete NAB/DMA restrictions. In the age of CONUS, it makes about as much sense as requiring consumers to buy milk and bread in their home area, or motorists to get their gasoline at the nearest station.

    The FCC is the custodian of the airwaves that belong to the people. Why do they act like lackeys for the NAB just because members of con-gress get huge "buy-your-vote checks from broadcasters and the NAB?

    My FCC-mandated DMA is from another state. It's currently illegal for me to watch or get locals from my own state, except via cable.

    What's up wih that? :shrug:

    :listenup: Listen up, FCC! I demand equal mistreatment under the law!
  8. May 5, 2004 #8 of 54

    rh26 Mentor

    Jan 25, 2003
    Nick, while I agree with most of your rant on the NAB, FCC, and the obsolesence of the whole DMA scheme, there is more to the story than just "cheap-assed flea-powered transmission".

    Here in Atlanta, Dish has placed on the "alternate satellite" (along with some 2nd tier stations) our second PBS station, WPBA Channel 30. IMO, channel 30 often has a better selection of programming and schedule but I can't get it (even if I got the 2nd dish I don't have visibility due to trees).

    Point is that Dish is making decisions about stations in my DMA that they aren't/shouldn't be allowed to make.

    Now if we want to repeal the whole DMA and NAB infrastructure I'm ready to talk... :)
  9. May 5, 2004 #9 of 54

    David_Levin Icon/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    Apr 22, 2002
    I still would like to see the free market drive the decision that the provider makes.

    If enough people choose DirectTV (or cable) because they don't want dual dishes, then Echostar will be forced to make a change.

    Ultimately, I feel the same way about Local-Into-Local.

    (It'll never happen). Unless, all the local broadcasters go away because no one is left watching the commercials and all original programming ends up on Subscription channels.

    As to this specific thread, E* is probably blowing a lot of steam. They are not losing bandwidth - but they are going to have to move things around. The smallest markets could end up with thier locals on the wings.
  10. Geronimo

    Geronimo Native American Potentate DBSTalk Gold Club

    Mar 23, 2002
    Apparently Charlie told the committee that he palns to scap the 2nd DISH idea by 2008.
  11. Bobby94928

    Bobby94928 Hall Of Fame

    May 12, 2003

    What're you gonna do if they move all the Atlanta channels over to 61.5? That is an option that can happen.
  12. Curtis0620

    Curtis0620 Hall Of Fame

    Apr 22, 2002

    Switch to Directv.
  13. Steveox

    Steveox Banned User

    Apr 21, 2004
    Well the Puerto Ricans wanted to become a state of the USA it comes with the territory of the FCC.Youre better off becoming another providance of canada so you can get BEV.
  14. homeskillet

    homeskillet Icon

    Feb 3, 2004
    I don't see why Puerto Rico isn't a state... I mean, besides them getting away with not paying taxes.... We're responsible for their welfare, I say make them pay their stinkin taxes, give them representation in congress... and be done with it already!
  15. Slordak

    Slordak Hall Of Fame

    Dec 17, 2003
    What about spot beams versus CONUS transponders? Would Charlie still be allowed to put major networks (which might be of interest for folks for "Distant Networks") for a market on CONUS transponders, with the smaller locals for that same market on a spot beam? Presumably that's allowed, right, as long as everyone in the actual DMA gets all the channels with the one dish?
  16. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    Apr 17, 2003
    That would work, but Conus slots are already at a premium ...

  17. Jacob S

    Jacob S Hall Of Fame

    Apr 14, 2002
    Dish only has three options, move them to 105/121, move them to the wing slots, or get rid of those local markets until they get more room (in which that was the whole point in having 105/121). Dish will lose a LOT of customers if they do not resolve this problem, will still probably lose a lot of customers to DirecTv due to the fact that customers will not want an additional dish or a SuperDish that is twice the size when they were able to get it on a Dish500 before. Also this will cost Dish a pretty penny for the dishes and paying the installers to swap them out.
  18. rvd420

    rvd420 Legend

    Mar 10, 2003
    DTv is trying to get the FCC to allow them to operate at 72.5 a Canadia slot.
    The deal is already in place between DTV and Telsat.
    Some DTV customers are going to see locals on a 2nd dish (but all locals in a market will be on one slot)

    So DTV is going to have to face the same proplems as Echostar (people not wanting a 2nd dish)
  19. SamC

    SamC Hall Of Fame

    Jan 20, 2003
    OK, I'm no math whiz, but I think Charlie is lying.

    Say that DISH is uplinking 1500 local channels. Say 200 of them require a second dish to receive. All 200 of them being the "worthless" UHF extras in big cities.

    So you move those 200 to the main dish, and move all of the channels in the 40 smallest markets, consisting of 200 channels, to the extra dish. Bandwidth useage change? Zero.
  20. FTA Michael

    FTA Michael Hall Of Fame

    Jul 21, 2002
    SamC, I agree 100%, and I expect that's what they'll do.

    The drawbacks are:

    (1) Dish will have to buy and install a second dish for every sub in those small markets, which will increase subscriber acquisition costs for those markets.

    (2) There will be some subs in each market who simply doesn't have a line of sight for the second dish. Certainly there will be some apartment dwellers with enough patio room for one dish but who might struggle with the second.

    It won't be fatal, but it'll hurt Dish a little.
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