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Echostar sues ViewTech

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by hankmack, Jul 22, 2007.

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  1. Jim5506

    Jim5506 Hall Of Fame

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    If you fail to see both the immorality AND the illegality of receiving and decrypting encrypted satellite broadcasts then you need to re-examine your moral compass.

    You have been corrupted by the creeping evil that's pervasive in our society.
     
  2. kenglish

    kenglish Icon

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    Just keep stealing from the broadcasters. Leave the satellite guys alone.
     
  3. killzone

    killzone AllStar

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    Actually there is a big difference. Picking your lock and going into your home involves someone comming over to your house and bypassing security to get in. The original poster is saying that the data stream is being sent right to his house. If they don't want him messing with the data (i.e. decrypting it, then don't send it to his house. If you decided to store some electronic device in everyone's home and tell them they have no choice but to let it stay there, would you honestly expect people to not mess with it?
     
  4. killzone

    killzone AllStar

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    Performances are not allowed to be recorded. I don't think the issue is just public air waves, it's the location where it's going. If somehow these readings were invading your house should it be illegal to sell you a "language" instructional CD such that you can understand the reading?
     
  5. Bill R

    Bill R Hall Of Fame

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    I said about the same thing (and mentioned the poster's name) and my post was deleted. :mad:
     
  6. killzone

    killzone AllStar

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    Once again there is a big difference between "sneaking" someplace and sitting in your home and having it sent to you. If they decided to build that amusement park around my house, such that I just have to walk into my backyard and there is a ride for me to go on (In my yard and on my property), I'd hardly call that sneaking in. Perhaps they should be paying me for the right to set those rides up in my yard?
     
  7. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Not quite the same thing (the person you named did not say there was nothing wrong with illegal decryption), but you're right about this thread needing to get on topic (E* vs VIEWTECH) fast or it will be shut down. We're getting into the circular off topic arguments again.

    :backtotop
     
  8. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Speaking of being on topic... has anyone heard anything new with regards to the lawsuit?
     
  9. Art7220

    Art7220 Godfather

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    Nothing new yet, but here's my analysis:

    DN wants to stamp out piracy. But they would also like to see all FTA STBs removed from the market, regardless of what people use them for, because then the thousands of people who can't get cable or an OTA signal would be forced to turn to the pay sat. companies to watch any TV whatsoever. No FTA on satellite anymore like in Europe. Charlie hasn't said anything to the contrary.

    In short, they just want FTA a$$ and cash.
     
  10. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    We'll take this for granted
    That's a silly argument. Because I don't tell everyone that I meet that I don't like plastic grocery bags doesn't mean that I want them outlawed. Chances are pretty good that, as an Oregon resident, I support the wood products industry, but you don't know my position on "paper or plastic" unless I come out and say so.
     
  11. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Absolutely ... which is why we see them go after the big violators: the commercial pirates who sell pirated boxes to others and the vendors of the tools that make piracy easier. They don't want anyone making money off of the satellite signals they uplink other than themselves.

    The complaint here is that the level of ViewTech sales are not supported by legitimate users. ViewTech has become another company that makes money off of illegally unscrambling E*'s signals. E* would like them to stop.

    I doubt if E* wants all FTA removed. FTA isn't a threat to E*, the third largest satellite/cable provider in the US. True FTA itself is practically a bug on the windshield of E*'s world.

    FTA becomes subscription when providers decide that they can make more money by charging their viewers than by letting them view for free and when a mechanism is in place where the provider can authorize individual receivers. There is nothing stopping any provider from uplinking their signals unscrambled.

    "Charlie hasn't said anything to the contrary." Hmm... I have not heard Charlie say anything against pedophilia, so he must support it. Just because someone has not spoken out about an issue does not mean that you can put the words in his mouth.

    FTA is OK and there are a lot of providers who allow FTA reception of their signals (including some international channels that are available via subscription on E*). But the vast majority of channel providers that E* carries have not chosen that route. Every path of legally viewing their program is via paid subscription. By fighting piracy E* is doing their part to respect these channel provider's wishes that no one views for free.
     
  12. a35r

    a35r Cool Member

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    Good explanation, I just admire generosity of E*; before I was under impression that it is all about money and corporate greed, now I am convinced they pursue worthy and dignifying goal.
     
  13. patmurphey

    patmurphey Godfather

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    Those of you who rail against "money and corporate greed" - how do you make a living? Perhaps you should give up your salaries, or business or investment profits lest you too be accused of greed.
     
  14. Sep 5, 2007 #154 of 239
    STDog

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    The "entertainment" industry has been arguing that for a long time no. And to the best of my knowledge, they have never won. The signal is there and free for anyone to use as they please, just like the signal on the coax once it enters your house.

    As to the public v/s private nature. The networks tried to claim their satellite feeds on the C-band systems were "private" and they lost that case too. That's when they started encrypting the transmission.

    One of the reason the industry pushed the DMCA was to write legal loop holes around that, though I don't believe they have been full tested in court yet. Reverse engineering is a valid enterprise, and minor encryption methods do not negate that. Just ask the printer manufacturers who claimed 3rd party ink cartridges violated the DMCA because the data transfer was encrypted.

    Those all all bogus. The only cases I know of regard the manufacture and sales of decryption devices. Remember the early C-band encryption., and the hacked decoders where you entered a set of codes? They finally bet the hackers, not by making it unbreakable, but by changing the codes often enough that it was not usable. If one had to enter code multiple times a day, people just weren't interested.
     
  15. Sep 5, 2007 #155 of 239
    STDog

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    In the 1800s it was illegal to harbor escaped slaves, or not inform law enforcement of their presence. Would you say violation that law was wrong?

    It was also illegal for the people of the colonies to revolt against the King of England, an offense punishable by death. So, was their revolution wrong?
     
  16. Sep 5, 2007 #156 of 239
    STDog

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    All that is just fine. Just like recording a radio broadcast on a cassette or CD.

    Now you likely to run afoul of the copyright. It the selling/distribution that cause legal problems.
     
  17. Sep 6, 2007 #157 of 239
    harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    The DMCA has been quite an effective tool in going after large scale satellite pirates. As the courts become acquainted with the process, the fish will likely get smaller.
     
  18. Sep 6, 2007 #158 of 239
    Jim5506

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    Does your back hurt? It seems you do an awful lot of twisting around to justify your questionable ethics.

    Equating scrambled satellite signals to slavery - give me a break!
     
  19. Sep 6, 2007 #159 of 239
    STDog

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    My questionable ethics?

    based on what pray tell.

    If you write a letter on a piece of paper, and drop it on the ground, is it illegal for me to read it?
    If you write it in code, does that change anything? (Congress and the DCMA say it does) Why should I not decrypt it and read it?

    The satellite signal is you putting the letter up on a big billboard for all to see. The early days of C-band were like plain text. Since then the information has been encrypted, but the info is still On the bill board. No twisting around or anything.

    I also have a problem with E* or anyone else telling me what I can and cannot do with the hardware (metal and silicon) I bought. If I want to take it apart and use the RF modulator in anther project, why not? I bought the thing. Or I pull the HDD out of a 501 and use it in another computer. Again, I bought it. If I want to write my own software for the hardware, then where does E* get the nerve to tell me I cannot? Next they will tell me I cannot used my old signal sat. dish (Dies 300) and LNBF with an different receiver.

    And, when I bought my receivers, all 4 of them came with smart cards,. So to me I bough that item too. Could you imaging GM/Ford telling you that the radio in you car belongs to them and you cannot charge it, or modify it?

    That said, I am a paying customer, and have been with DishNetwork since 1998. Before that I had used Echostar C-band equipment, and it was one of the reasons I chose DishNetwork. I've never used hacked decoders, weather it was for the VC-II or my DishNetwork systems.


    I did no such thing. You should read the context before such a slam.

    Illegal <> immoral just as legal <> moral

    I simply picked easy to understand examples where the moral thing was illegal.
     
  20. Sep 6, 2007 #160 of 239
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    We have federal laws that protect content. In this case, the law gives ownership to the providers. All they have to do is have a way for people to subscribe and tell people to do so. They don't have to provide encryption - that is their choice - all they have to do is put up their no trespassing signs.

    Keep out means keep out ...
     
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