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Electric Car Owner Busted For ‘Stealing’ Electricity

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Drucifer, Dec 5, 2013.

  1. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    It is just an example of entitlement culture. People who carry chargers feel entitled to use any outlet they find. And somehow there is a requirement to post or lock access to outlets in order to prevent people from using them?

    The assumptions have changed. The ideal of "it is not mine - I need to ASK permission" has changed into "no one told me not to". And on that slippery slope we move into the world of "what harm is it doing?"

    The followers of "what harm is it doing" don't care if they have been told not to do something. They look at a power outlet and say "what harm would it do to take 5c of electricity". They look at a tennis court and say "what harm would it do to play here". They ignore any instruction to stay away or not do what the want because they refuse to see the harm - or they minimize the harm to something negligible and feel that they are entitled to take what they want.

    The satellite/cable/copyright content thieves operate the same way. What harm is it doing to steal a copy of a signal or content that others are paying for? The satellite companies are beaming the signal at my house from space I have a right to receive it for free. If they don't want me to receive their signals they shouldn't transmit them at my house. If cable doesn't want me seeing their signals they shouldn't run their service through my back yard.

    What ever happened to "if it is not mine I need to ASK"? What ever happened to "if I am not granted permission I can't"?
     
  2. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    So, you're in a post office; allowed to be there. There are no signs saying do not take pens, do not take large supplies of envelops home, do not reach into the cash drawer, etc., and no one has told you not to do those things.... I bet you'd be had up for theft in a minute.
     
  3. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Your cash drawer example is just silly... you know stealing someone's money is illegal.

    Many of the envelopes are free. You can't take the ones that are priced... again, that is obvious stealing... but the ones that are free? Those you can take in any quantity that you want... they are free. The post office will even ship those to your home for free!

    As for the pens... they are there for you to use while in the store... Use the pen while you are there, and leave it behind when you go... and that's fine... but yes, taking the pen with you would be stealing.

    Think shopping carts... You can't take those off the lot or to your home... but you can use them in the store and in the parking lot.

    Now... electricity... IF there are accessible outlets in a place like a coffee shop or post office or whatever public place... then they either need to lock them OR put clear signs saying that you cannot use them. IF they don't do that, then it is tantamount to essentially inviting you to use them.

    Think copyright laws... If you own a copyright or trademark, the police doesn't run around stopping people... YOU have to do that. IF you allow people to use your copyright or trademark and don't pursue them, then you have allowed your copyright/trademark to be usurped and risk it going into public domain fair/free-usage.

    The subject of this particular thread, however, deals with a person who was somewhere that he was told not to be... using electricity he was not supposed to be using... and he knew it... that's why he is a thief definitively.
     
  4. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    Well, you and I have very different ideas as to what's O.K. or not. Perhaps walking off with 500 envelopes from the PO isn't technically stealing, but it's just wrong. Pulling large amounts of electricity from someone else's power is just wrong, and is likely to be prosecuted after a warning. I can't agree that an electric outlet without a warning is an open invitation.

    My discussion on this omits the doofus who trespassed on school property.
     
  5. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    If I'm at a coffee shop, and there's an outlet by my seat, I do assume it's there for my use. And of course I've purchased something, and I'm not there for hours on a single small cup of coffee.

    I wouldn't walk into my post office and plug into an outlet, even if I have business there. You go in and get out. Other places have an environment that suggests you stick around a bit.

    Taking a large number of envelopes, in an amount far greater than you need can certainly violate Wheaton's Law, but not actual law.
     
  6. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    Right. Plugging in a laptop or other smallish device in a restaurant or coffee shop with convenient outlets is more than fine. In fact, I'd say there's an invitation.

    But it's way different from rolling your EV up to someones outlet, pulling out an extension cord, and draining ten or twenty bucks worth of someone's power.
     
  7. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    Think more like 10 cents an hour (or what ever your KWHr charge is) not twenty bucks! I have an EV (Leaf) and it has a 120 volt charger for emergencies in the trunk. I've used it 1 time in 24 months - testing it in my driveway!
     
  8. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Did he live in Los Angeles? Could be $20. ;)

    patents aren't consumables. Consumables should be asked before being used. Patents are things you may not even know exist.
     
  9. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    C'mon, man, a little hyperbole is all right!.... :) Out on the Left Coast, KwHs are way higher. But you make a good point. But how many Kws are used to charge a machine such as yours?
     
  10. Herdfan

    Herdfan Well-Known Member

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    According to documentation, the 110 plug draws 1.4Kw.

    Where I live, that would cost 13 cents an hour, double that for California.
     
  11. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    My battery capacity is 24 KWHr. While it's never been completely down a full charge at my 10.5 cents per Kwhr would be 2.52.

    That represents about 90 miles of driving.

    Sweet! (not counting $0 for maintenance in the 25 months we've had it.)
     
  12. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Thanks, may result in us getting an 'lectic vehicle, esp after putting in solar....
     
  13. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    That depends on one's definition of "convenient". Outlets above the top of the table in a coffee shop with wi-fi is undoubtedly there for the use of their customers (for a reasonable amount of time). Outlets behind the vending machines in the airport ... not so much. Outlets next to the windows at each seat on Amtrak trains or at the posted "charging stations" at Greyhound stations - fair game. Outlets tucked away for the cleaning crew ... not so much.

    I'll stick with the $1.50 per hour charged at legitimate charging stations in Atlanta Georgia - the area where this criminal trespassed and stole electricity. :)
     
  14. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    That's a pretty good profit margin - but you're not going to get rich with the current number of EVs!!

    Other than the previous warning, that's pretty much petty theft.

    We don't need more clogs in our legal system.

    And most charging stations in NC are still free!
     
  15. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    To be fair the $1.50 also allows one to park the car ... but the car is only allowed to park there while being charged.
     
  16. billsharpe

    billsharpe Hall Of Fame

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    SCE (Southern California Edison) uses a tiered system. Tier 3 is 27 cents per hour, but my total bill for last month came out to an average of 18 cents per hour.
     
  17. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    But what might be missing is if the place is already in teir four, then rates are sky high and he's just adding to it, or he's pushing them to get to teir four faster and either way, his electricity should be looked at at the highest tier pricing because his electric pull is all on top of what is expected.
     
  18. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    The theft of the electricity was petty theft. It escalated from the warning and repeat occurrence.

    Nothing more.
     
  19. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Do we? As for the envelopes... it depends on what envelopes. IF you take even 1 of the envelopes that the post office sells, then that is stealing! But the ones that are there for you to use for free? They encourage you to take them. When I used to mail a lot of stuff, I would ask and they would always say take as many as you like, they are free to use.

    Your second post (below) seems to disagree with what you are saying... that "I can't agree that an electric outlet without a warning is an open invitation"...

    See what I mean? You just disagreed with yourself... You said "without a warning" is not an "open invitation" earlier... but then you just agreed with what I and others said that some situations is tantamount to an invitation in certain establishments.

    Obviously private property is off limits and that shouldn't bear discussion.

    So... we are left with public property and businesses. I believe that IF you are not permitted to use electricity in a place that they should have to tell/ask you not to use it either by direct contact OR via signage. They shouldn't have to tell/ask you more than once, though.
     
  20. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    No, Stewart, my statement stands. If I had put in the word "all" would that make it clear and consistent enough? An electric outlet placed conveniently in a public place where laptops are commonly in use is an open invitation. An outlet on private—or semi-private—property is not an open invitation in my book; MMV.
     

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