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Enterprise Finale. (Spoilers) What the <bleep!> are they smoking???

Discussion in 'TV Show Talk' started by djlong, May 26, 2004.

  1. Jim Parker

    Jim Parker Icon

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    The Time Cops have spys every where. That gives new meaning to "A snitch in time saves the line." :lol:

    OK, I posted the same pun in a different thread, but it is still funny. :) Besides, maybe somebody did not read the thread on UFOs.

    If the Aquatics ship ran into the bottom of the disk section of the Enterprise, would that be "Water under the Bridge?" :lol:
     
  2. Suzz

    Suzz Guest

    For starters, this is my first post here, so my apologies if I overstep any rules/regulations. Secondly, I apologize, too, if someone has already pointed these things out. My third apology is to anyone upset by my strong and blatant opinions I post here. They are JUST my opinions and you have infinite freedom to differ from them. Be pacified by that knowledge.

    +

    The biggest thing I hate about episodes, story arcs, seasons, and entire TV SHOWS centered around the concept of Time Travel is that it creates manure... for ample and plentiful sprouting of inconsistencies and illogical conjecture. Because I think it's fun, I would like to point some out.

    +

    1. When Daniels took the Archer off of Degra's ship to show him the 'future of the Federation,' Archer told him that he didn't have the time to see whatever it was Daniels wanted to show him. Okay, he doesn't have the TIME? Time is all he HAS! Daniels could drop his sorry arse right back into the second that he took him.

    +

    2. This was said, but I really have to wonder... if Enterprise is now in the 1930s/1940s, where the hill are the Aquatics? I can only guess that the reason they are 'back to the past' (so to speak) is because they traveled through the vortex and created the same problems that happened/would-have-happened before when they were going to rendezvous with Degra's ship and go to the council meeting.

    +

    As a side-note, I'd like to say how DUMB it was that they (the writers) decided to be super lazy and call each race of Xindi by their English-related names. (Directed to the writers:) Come on, now, you're being PAID to be creative. Lardy.

    +

    3. I loved the little round of slightly deep thoughts regarding the logic (or lack there of) of time travel when the current Enterprise went through the vortex (the first time) and the captain wondered whether if the second Enterprise didn't exist since they made it through the vortex w/o being thrown back in time and then T'Pol responded that if that were true, why would they remember them? Had they gone any farther (and the writers would have given TV viewers a little credit to use their own darn brains), they could have also said, that if they didn't go back in time, how would the future/past enterprise come and stop them from entering the vortex. So on and so forth.

    +

    4. Anybody else find it extremely coincidental that Scott Bakula is starring in yet another time travel show? I keep half-expected Al to show up smoking a cigar and telling Archer who he is supposed to be, where he is, and what he should do to save humanity.

    +

    There are plenty more where those came from, but they escape me at the moment.

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    I'd like to see where they're planning on taking this new twist in the plot. I was totally expecting a way different cliff-hanger than some dumb demon-looking Nazi and the crew mysteriously in the middle of WWII. I had mixed feelings about seeing Archer alive, because I don't like the character, but can't see the show w/o Scott Bakula. He IS the proverbial glue holding this crap together (that and the shoddy romance between Trip and T'Pol). It would have been nice if the story expressed some sort of PURPOSE for them to be in the past... AGAIN. I also wondered why Ensign Sato didn't pick up any radio broadcasts while she was scanning communication frequencies. I think we all learned from the book (and subsequent movie) _Contact_ by the GREAT Carl Sagan that some of the strongest radio signals started being emitted by Earth during le guerre de monde II.

    +

    *Completely unrelated and bizarre info you don't need to know:*
    +
    I was scanning bios of the actors on Enterprise and nearly peed my pants when I read Connor Trinneer's because he got his BA at PLU (where I almost went because I'm Lutheran, but I didn't like the flute teacher) and that he got his MFA at UMKC, where I'm currently getting my Masters of Music. WEIRD! Cue the flippin' theme from Twilight Zone, why don't ya!

    ++

    I might post here again, but I don't think that's going to happen. I much better at lurking.

    *-*-Suzanne
    AKA Suzz sijenkins@hotmail.com
     
  3. Mark Holtz

    Mark Holtz Day Sleeper DBSTalk Club

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    :welcome_s to DBSTalk. You are more than welcome to post here, and are encouaged to register.

    No, you didn't break any of the rules.
    Yes, I'm a fan of Bakula from the Quantun Leap era. Have a raincheck for Quantum Leap-Season 1 from trys.
    Yes. I want to shoot the writers.

    They had a pretty good ending until the last 90 seconds.
     
  4. pjmrt

    pjmrt Hall Of Fame

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    Hmmm - I like it! Al could replace Daniels, because all the temporal paradoxs they've created by now. But who would be Ziggy? :)
     
  5. Suzz

    Suzz New Member

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    They could introduce a benevolent clan of the sphere-builders! :grin: For continuity's sake, in the lame episode Carpenter Street, the alien that told Archer the Reptilians were building a bio-weapon on Earth in the 21st century could have been a benevolent sphere-builder.

    I MISS GOOD STAR TREK! How is it that UPN has the ability to take an awesome established idea with established fan base (Star Trek) and start with a good premise (Voyager, Enterprise) and then turn it into absolute dreck? Is this the fault of Brannon Braga? :confused:

    Does anyone know when/if they're coming out with another movie?

    -Suzz

    "Tea, Earl Grey, Hot."
     
  6. pjmrt

    pjmrt Hall Of Fame

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    not sure about the movie - I had heard that the Voyager folks had planned things so that there would not be a Voyager-premise movie. And I suspect the NG folks are getting a bit old to be treking about the galaxy. That pretty much leaves Enterprise as the movie candidate.

    As for the series, I'm not as down on Enterprise as most I guess. There were some poorly written episodes - but as a whole I think its first 2 seasons have been better than those of STNG, DS9 and Voyager. I never thought DS9 or Voyager were as good as STNG and the first few years of STNG were bad. They finished very strong with good stories/writing - so most have probably forgotten how much the series improved after Picard got assimilated.

    My question, now that the timeline is a mess - when is Q going to show up?
     
  7. dfergie

    dfergie Hall Of Fame

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    Maybe its time for Galaxy Quest the series :)
    I've only caught a handful of Enterprise episodes this season, but seems like most had a time travel theme of one sort or another. The one where Archers short term memory was gone, The one with E2 and the season ender...
    Welcome Suzanne :)
     
  8. Randy_B

    Randy_B Icon/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Do you 'spose the white mice the Reptilians ate/toasted with were imported by the time traveling Reptilians? "Oh, ya gotta try these tasty little things we found in Detroit!They are to die for. We'll bring back a case with us." :grin:

    I agree, cliffhangers are not necessary. Even so, they could have just left it with Archer's fate uncertain (I also thought Andorians had him) and the earth "quiet."
     
  9. FTA Michael

    FTA Michael Hall Of Fame

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    TV Guide (the magazine, not the channel) reports that the reason Enterprise came back is that Paramount needed a fourth season to get enough episodes for syndication, so Paramount cut its fee per episode by about 2/3rds. TVG also pointed out that essentially anything would get better ratings than the third-rate movies that had occupied UPN's Friday night.

    So UPN gets cheap Friday filler, Paramount loses money next season so it can reap big bucks for decades to come, and Enterprise has one season to wrap it up. It's time to work Q into an episode, don't you think?
     
  10. Lyle_JP

    Lyle_JP Icon

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    Apr 22, 2002
    Paramount makes Enterprise, not Universal.
     
  11. beasst37799

    beasst37799 Legend

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    Mar 8, 2004
    i must say i watched the finale and granted was not eager for the cliffhanger . however there is one point that many of you seem to have forgotten . first when future daniels told Archer about the sphere builders (just before archer tried to blow up the super weapon) . daniels said that the enterprise -J was involved in the main battle between the federation and the sphere builders .infact the battle was taking place in the altered expanse .However in the finale enterprise destroyed the shpere network .So my main question is how can there be a inportant battle in altered psace when it no longer exsits ?????? Maybe just maybe the alien nazi is a agent of the sphere builders sent back in time to alter the outcome of ww2.
     
  12. stonecold

    stonecold Banned User

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    Feb 20, 2004
    While I will try and keep this short and sweet I would like to say i am sorry if I get long winded.

    they are getting to the point where they might as well call the show Quantum leap 2

    Not a big fan of people always using time travel to fix things.

    The little bit of time travel mess voyager was in was enough.... with the one guy from the future trying to stop voyager. And then at the end with Future Janeway coming back to the past to get her self and her crew home safe through the borg space tunnels or what ever they called them.

    But this show seems to be surrounded by Time travel. is ti really going to hurt them to just have a normal script. with klingons romans and such


    Also I would of liked to seen a voyager or DS9 movie.
     
  13. waydwolf

    waydwolf Icon

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    Feb 2, 2003
    1. Time travel storylines have to be intricately written following the "six degrees of Bacon" system essentially. ALL THINGS AFFECT ALL OTHER THINGS. They can't conveniently act as though they don't. They are, but they shouldn't.

    2. Bakula was the worst choice for a Trek captain ever made. He's doing a constant cross-pollenization of his Murphy Brown character and Sam Becket. Someone should have let him do something totally original for him, with plenty of idiosyncracies that would make you want to see more of the character but evidently they wanted Sam Becket with some machismo.

    3. We know there's plenty of aliens that were never explored in Trek or even properly named. Every one of the episodes or movies that involved Federation delegates showed some weird aliens in the background we know nothing of. They all reminded me of the royal court scene in Flash Gordon where we meet Ming for the first time and Deep Roy and a bunch of other little people are running about in weird outfits. WTF are they? Do we care? How many more are we not seeing?

    4. Destroying established history and thinking you can use time travel to heal it all in the end it too close to sorcery. If they want to do magic, let them do a fantasy series ala Buffy. But this is SCIENCE FICTION and anything but the most simplistic usage will cause storyline issues to spiral out of control and kill the audience's ability to suspend disbelief and enjoy the show. Remember the ST:TNG episode with the Paxans(they sound like a feminine hygeine product) wiping the crew's memory. We watching the show similarly will notice inconsistancies more and more until the whole charade falls apart.

    Let Enterprise die and let a new show set in line with the TNG, Voy, and DS9 series take place. We've got loads of inconsistancies to deal with there already. Like having nanites and people still die of simple viral infections, or being able to control gravity on ships but be totally unable to make their inertial dampening systems work reliably after more than two centuries. Or... well, you get the idea.
     
  14. Kevin_F

    Kevin_F New Member

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    Apr 22, 2002
    What you all fail to grasp is that the entire Enterprise series takes place in the "Mirror Universe". Thats why Kirk, etc have no knowledge of the temporal war, major destruction to a part of the Earth, and why Vulcans spy on their neighbors.

    I'll also be disapointed if there is a reset or if the above were true unless the writers do a brilliant job of it!
     
  15. Lyle_JP

    Lyle_JP Icon

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    There will be a major "reset" at the end of the series. Berman has repeatedly stated to fans that when they see the whole series the inconsistencies between Enterprise and what comes after will be explained.

    At this point, I'm sure that means that all the adventures we've seen of Archer's crew will somehow never be a part of the Trek timeline which is canon.
     
  16. djlong

    djlong Hall Of Fame

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    ...except that, apparently, Berman is being shown the door.
     
  17. Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

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    Two things here from me...I just watched the epsisode tonight.

    First, I'm jumping for joy that Berman's gone and Manny Coto is taking over.

    Second, I liked the ending. I don't think they're back in time. I think the destruction of the spheres caused an alternate timeline to replace the original and that Enterprise ended up back on Earth in their present day. Archer may be back in time, or he may also be in the present. The Nazis obviously won WW2, and have completely stifled technological advancement since then. However, they have made contact (or had contact made to them) by whatever alien race "The Master" comes from. Depending on what comes next, I think this could be a very satisfying twist. But that's just me, coming from someone who have watched everything Trek related except for Voyager (gave up on that one early on because I couldn't stand it). [crawling into flame suit now... :)]
     
  18. BobMurdoch

    BobMurdoch Hall Of Fame

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    Hey, all intelligent responses are appreciated. No flames from me. I like it a LITTLE more with your description. I just fear them going into Kirk and Spock in Nazi uniform territory well after the time when they jumped the shark on the original series......

    What's next.... Archer in a pinstripe suit rubbing out reptiles in zoot suits?
     
  19. Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

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    Well, honestly, that would make me laugh. There have been some abysmally aweful episodes of Enterprise in its three seasons, but there have been some really great ones as well.

    I was absolutely shocked as hell 3 or 4 epsidodes back when Archer and crew stole the warp coil from those aliens, dooming them to a loooong trip back home. I never thought I'd ever see something like that in a Trek series, and it was a very refreshing, welcome change that sometimes the ends do justify the means, if the cause is great enough. A very anti-Trek idea, and a very real one. It wasn't the standard Trek cop-out or duex ex machina where the day is saved and everyone is happy and fine at the end.
     
  20. FTA Michael

    FTA Michael Hall Of Fame

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    Yeah, that was another plot thread I was hoping to see addressed at the end. I would have really liked to hear, in the wrapup, somebody say something like "And the Xindi have replaced our warp core and have offered to return the H?oozits warp core to their ship." Even now, we can speculate that it might have happened offscreen.

    Can we look forward to "Brain? Brain? What is Brain?"
     

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