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eSATA capacity questions

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Rich, Nov 30, 2008.

  1. Jan 5, 2009 #341 of 579
    Rich

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    I just hooked up another X to one of my 20-700s and while watching football games yesterday I did experience a couple freezeups. Minor annoyance, corrected by skipping back once both times, but I only have a few programs on it and can't help but wonder what will happen if I load it up. If I get lockups, this will be the last X I purchase. Would rather get another 2TB Cav. Never took one of the Cavs apart, but I think I remember reading that they have WD drives in them. My two Seagate 1TB drives work perfectly, both use the Barracuda drives.

    Rich
     
  2. Jan 5, 2009 #342 of 579
    Rich

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    Can you tell us how to upgrade the firmware? I'd call Seagate, but that usually entails a long wait for a tech to come on the line.

    Rich
     
  3. Jan 5, 2009 #343 of 579
    t_h

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    Most likely western digital greenpowers, non AV.

    But there are two of them in there, and the enclosure is spreading the read/write operations between them, so you've more or less doubled the disk units throughput on reads, writes, and caching operations.

    With the single 1.5TB drive, its one disk trying to do it all.

    A mirrored pair of drives in an enclosure (as opposed to a bonded pair) split the reads, but not the writes. The HR by default is always writing one stream and reading the same stream. When dual recording, its writing two streams and reading one. When dual recording and VOD'ing, its writing three streams and reading one.

    So for performance and reduction of performance limitations, two disks bonded to act like one may perform quite a bit better than a mirrored pair setup, which would outperform a single disk...but since the HR may write quite a bit more in real time than its reading, the advantage of the mirrored set is limited.

    Problem with a bonded pair of 1TB's making 2TB's is that you've more than halved the MTBF. Either drive fails and the pair fail. Its more than a halving because drives usually fail fairly soon or not for a long time, and the mtbf carries that 'long time' weighting against a large number of drives. Drives dont fail as a smooth function against time. So a drive with 500,000 hours will probably go for close to the 500,000 hours or nowhere near it. Not very many drives fail in the middle.

    So by bonding a pair, you've doubled your odds of getting a rogue bad disk that will croak within a few months, rather than reduced your mtbf to 250,000 hours. If you're looking at it as a function of hundreds or thousands of drives, you get closer to that 500,000 number. If you're looking at it as a function of two, its much, much lower.
     
  4. Jan 5, 2009 #344 of 579
    Rich

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    I have alway considered the 100s the worst of the HRs based on my experiences with them. And if you look at the setups of many of the more knowledgeable (not necessarily the ones with the most posts) folks on the forum, you will see few 100s.

    I never hear a sound from my 700s when I do that and I record a lot of baseball (6 hours) and football games (4.5-5 hours) and delete them immediately after viewing unless I am trying to fill up a hard drive to see what will happen. Yet another reason that I wouldn't own (or lease) a 100.

    I've had both the CMG and the PP folks tell me that the 100s are the units that give them the most problems. Takes a bit of prodding to get that admission.

    Rich
     
  5. Jan 5, 2009 #345 of 579
    Rich

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    I try so hard to digest all this and I am learning so, by all means, keep it up. Just answer this question: I am using the two 2TBs at full capacity and as much as possible recording the same shows on each. If one fails, it's not that big a deal, I'll just start over with a new one. Do you think I'm doing the right thing?

    Rich
     
  6. Jan 5, 2009 #346 of 579
    t_h

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    I think $5 a month for an extra receiver with two tuners and its own separate hard drive(s) is the best and cheapest fault tolerance option.

    We duplicate most of our favorite shows across two dvr's. Saved my bacon on more than a few occasions.
     
  7. Jan 5, 2009 #347 of 579
    russdog

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    My experience of UI slowness is independent of how busy the box is with recordings.
    Neither does it correlate with how full the HDD is. The only thing it correlates with is how full the db is.
    An occasional reboot clears the cache of recent stuff and improves UI responsiveness a bit, but not enough.
    Both of my HR21's work fine except for this (and the crappy D* "channels you get" data which has the boxes trying to autorecord channels I don't receive... and the broadcast-network-only stutter).

    So, there is no reason to suggest that the UI-responsiveness of my boxes is due to anything other than the db.
    Dunno what to say about other peoples' boxes.
     
  8. Jan 5, 2009 #348 of 579
    russdog

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    Yesterday, it happened on FOX.
    I believe FOX is 720, which is not the highest bandwidth requirement.

    I agree that UI responsiveness and stuttering are two ubiquitous problems.
    Not sure why we should think they are both due to the same thing.
    I'm not saying they aren't, just saying there's no reason I know of to assume that they are.
    For example, a properly designed db might fix the UI without fixing the stutter, and vice versa.
     
  9. Jan 5, 2009 #349 of 579
    saxon2000

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    Just a quick update; now down to 4% remaining. Sound and video were out of sync this morning. Power down fixed it. That has been an infrequent issue for some time. No freezes or any other problems.
     
  10. Jan 5, 2009 #350 of 579
    Rich

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    Great minds...

    Rich
     
  11. Jan 5, 2009 #351 of 579
    Rich

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    Seems to me that you are correct about the data base problem. I'm down to 23% available on one 2TB eSATA and I have been restarting it every time I have a chance. This time I had a chance to restart it before I dipped below 30% and it has not slowed down at all. Seems as if between you and VOS something clicked on in my mind and began to make sense. Gotta admit I'm still having a hard time following all this, but I think it's getting clearer.

    Add T_H's posts and even thru the confusion I can see light at the end of the tunnel. And I think you and him and VOS are right. Does take some sorting out tho.

    Rich
     
  12. Jan 5, 2009 #352 of 579
    Rich

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    I'm down to 23% on one of my 2TBs and that equates to using over 1.5TBs with no problem. Been restarting since I reached 30% Available and no problems. By the way, I see that video and audio sync problem on TBS all the time on all seven of my HRs. I watch Seinfeld reruns all the time and the problem is really evident on that show.

    Have you seen a "warning" pop up telling you that your hard drive is almost full?

    Rich
     
  13. Jan 5, 2009 #353 of 579
    saxon2000

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    No. No popup warnings. If I do, I'll post it.
     
  14. Jan 5, 2009 #354 of 579
    Richierich

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    I believe when you reboot you get rid of all of the temporary storage that is left available and then some reorganization takes place which makes things quicker with more memory.

    Same thing used to happen on my HR10-150s when they got to that state but I didn't know or realize that I should just go and delete things that I didn't need and then the DVR started pixellating and haveing stuttering problems and sluggishness and everyone said "You need to replace your hard drive." I did but I lost all of my recordings so now I run with RAID1 Mirroring Setup and I don't have those problems.

    Just can't wait until the new 2 TB drives come out designed for A/V by Western Digital.
     
  15. Jan 5, 2009 #355 of 579
    Beast

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    Hi Rich

    Down to the wire so to speak. 6% free space. The only restart I have done was to down load the latest CE. I do not see any noticeable change in the menu response time. What I do see are times when the DVR is recording and im watching a recording and then enter the recordings list it gets a bit slower than normal. But after some seconds it will respond close to normal speed.

    I have my show listed with the oldest on top. So I am keeping an eye on those shows to see if they start to drop of as the disk continues to fill. Or if I crash, I hope not.
    I will keep you posted.

    I must say I am glad this experiment is close to the finish. What a job to wade through all those listings. LOL
     
  16. Jan 5, 2009 #356 of 579
    Blademan

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    Lack of compression fittings? And here I was just thinking I'm being retentive to make my own compression fittings for the Ka-Lo dongle.
     
  17. Jan 6, 2009 #357 of 579
    Rich

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    We do appreciate your efforts. This morning I am a 21% Available on one of my 2TBs and nothing adverse is happening. Hard to believe that something as simple as "refreshing" by restarting from the menu has allowed me to reach this point. I am well over 1.5TBs of capacity and it looks as if I might make it all the way. VeryOldSchool was right on the button with his advice. And he doesn't even have an eSATA!

    Have you seen any warnings that your hard drive is nearly full?

    I just hooked up an X 1.5 Tuesday last week on one of my 20-700s and it is running well except for a couple of freezeups during a football game. Same problem I had with the other X 1.5 on a 21-700. I do a lot of jumping around during football games and I believe that caused the freezeups. Minor annoyance. Jumped back one time and got the thing going again. Think I'll avoid football games on this eSATA.

    Try to get to the point where one program deletes automatically to make room for more recordings, then delete all your unwanted programs and go back to normal operating conditions. That will complete the test and you can be assured of having the complete capacity of the eSATA if you need it and another of our questions will be answered. Can't begin to thank you enough for participating in this exercise.

    Rich
     
  18. Jan 6, 2009 #358 of 579
    John4924

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    Do you have any idea of the timing for these new drives?

    Thanks,
    John
     
  19. Jan 6, 2009 #359 of 579
    Beast

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    Hi Rich

    Well all done. The drive went all the way down to 0% free space, while continuing to record new material. Old shows not marked (Untill I delete) were being removed to make space. Never got any message (warning) that the disk was almost full. As I was now deleting watched shows to return everything to normal operations, it was painfully slow to respond untill I got about 11% free space available again, then things started to move at a bit better speed. I am now in the process of building back my preferred record list. I had changed it all up in order to fill the disk. I doubt I will see this amount of disk usage any time in the near future, unless I go on a long vacation.

    This completes the successful test of a FA-X 1.5tb drive connected to an HR21-700.
     
  20. Jan 7, 2009 #360 of 579
    claimjumper

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    You guys that are trying to use the 1.5TB should post your Part Number and Firmware Number as well to help others and for in the future.

    There has been a big problem with Seagates 1.5TB drives and people are upgrading their firmware or just sending the drives back. It is a massive problem. It could also be causing you problems on the receivers as well.

    There are threads around here about the topic.

    The part number and firmware are on the label or can be viewed using tools.
     

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