Exactly how does this work?

Discussion in 'General Satellite Discussion' started by zok4me2000, Apr 28, 2018.

  1. zok4me2000

    zok4me2000 New Member

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    I've been a member for awhile but silently for sure. I'm trying to understand the whole satellite communications chains and then want to drill down from there. Is this forum appropriate to do so or is there a better place to go? Is there any written materials to know things like: How many sat's are above us to serve the western region of the USA? How many channels can one satellite handle? etc. etc. I'm sure as the answers are revealed it will generate many more. I'm a DISH Network customer and want to understand more.
     
  2. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    You should start from condensed info: threads dedicated to launch latest dish sats - see Wiki for echostar sas, James Long's info posts and his site pages.
    Long way to learn is read books, offline, online,eBooks ,,, as you prefer,
     
  3. zok4me2000

    zok4me2000 New Member

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    Thank you. Starting the learning process.
     
  4. zok4me2000

    zok4me2000 New Member

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    Can anyone explain why there are two cables going into/out of the antenna? I understand that there are three LNB's covering the 110, 119 and 129 satellites. I assume that the "switch" in the antenna path is used to select the correct satellite based on the channel chosen by me on the Hopper II. I would have expected only a single output (cable) based on the chosen channel. Again, why two cables for the output? Is this switch located in the LNB array or is it part of the "SOLO" node I have? What else does the "SOLO" node do?
     
  5. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The "solo" node connects one Hopper (original or Hopper w/sling) to a DISHPro+ LNB. The Hopper has three tuners and needs three satellite signals to operate correctly. DISHPro+ only passes two signals. The node takes two signals from one cable and one signal from the second cable and stacks them on a single cable that feeds the Hopper. (The "duo" node has three cables from the dish LNB to the node, providing six satellite signals - three for each of the two Hoppers that it can support. The Hopper 3 uses a different LNB that is capable of stacking 16 transponder sized feeds and delivering them to one Hopper 3.)

    Your system has switches in the node and in the LNB on the dish. They work together to make sure your receiver has the signals it needs to record/display the programming you want to watch.
     
  6. zok4me2000

    zok4me2000 New Member

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    Got it. The LNB's are numbered and so is the "SOLO." By your description, I take it that any LNB wire can go to any input on the SOLO. Correct?
     
  7. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    correct
    I would go to Solid Signal site , they have a lot of diagrams of connecting LNB, switches,nodes, DVR, etc
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
  8. zok4me2000

    zok4me2000 New Member

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    I went to solidsignal.com and could find no wiring diagrams. Did I get this wrong?

    Next question:
    Dish uses, in the western arc, three satellites. they use 110, 119 and 129. each of these satellites has 32 transponders (channels if you will). So ....
    1. I assume that there is only one uplink per satellite right?
    2. all uplink data is available to each transponder (one in and 32 out per satellite)?
    3. three satellites are required to handle the full content of DISH's offerings?
    4. is there other content (other than Dish's) being transmitted?
    5. what's this notion of a "spot beam."

    Please forgive me with all these questions, I'm just trying to learn.
     
  9. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    tpns are not channels; PIDs are the channels
    take a look at lyngsat site - see coverage diagrams, compare CONUS and spot beams pictures, PIDs and channels and transponders
    teke another look at solidsignal, then have papers and diagram for DTV and dish
     
  10. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    It is better to use the correct terms ... otherwise one is talking about how many channels can be carried on a channel. The correct term is transponder. There are 32 licensed transponder frequencies per DBS satellite. With some planning they can be reused in different parts of the country (read on).

    Answers inline ...
    1. I assume that there is only one uplink per satellite right?
    I believe DISH currently has seven uplink centers. For each transponder on the satellite could be uplinked from a different site (satellite design can limit where certain transponders are uplinked). And while we refer to "the satellite at 110" there can be more than one DISH satellite at each location. For example there are two satellites at 110, one used for national "ConUS" (continental US) coverage and one used for "spotbeams". The spotbeams are why DISH has so many uplink centers.

    2. all uplink data is available to each transponder (one in and 32 out per satellite)?
    Nope. Most satellites are stupid reflectors, similar to that mirror in your bathroom that reflects only what it sees ... no editing or photo shop. 32 separate uplinks are reflected as 32 separate downlinks. A complicated 100 transponder spot beam satellite needs 100 uplinks (with a few exceptions).

    Only 32 transponders can be uplinked to each orbital location from each uplink center. Using multiple uplink centers means 32 transponders can be uplinked from Virginia, 32 from Texas, 32 from Chicago, 32 from Arizona, 32 from Wyoming, 32 from Seattle. 192 transponders if all 32 uplinks were used at six sites. But only 32 can be aimed at your house. So DISH aims the other ones at someone else.

    3. three satellites are required to handle the full content of DISH's offerings?
    Three orbital positions (more than three satellites).

    4. is there other content (other than Dish's) being transmitted?
    Yes. DIRECTV has their own satellites at 110 and 119 which limit what DISH can use at those two locations. DISH is currently licensed to use 50 transponders at 110 and 119, DIRECTV has the other 14. DISH has 129 all to themselves, DIRECTV has 101 all to themselves.

    5. what's this notion of a "spot beam."
    It is complicated. Basically it is transponder reuse. Instead of having 32 "ConUS" transponders sending the same signal to the entire US (and usually to Alaska and Hawaii) smaller footprint transponders may be used.

    [​IMG]
    Each circle is a spotbeam. Note the overlaps - DISH cannot use the same transponder frequency for spotbeams in overlapping circles without interference.

    [​IMG]
    This shows the spot beams sharing the same transponder downlink frequency. Note minimal overlap.
     
  11. makaiguy

    makaiguy Icon

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    A spot beam is like a narrow "pencil" beam flashlight whose signal gets aimed at a small patch of the globe. These are used to transmit local broadcast stations to just the part of the country they serve.

    Other beams are like a flood light instead of a narrow pencil beam. They cover a much larger portion of the country. Those that can deliver signals to the whole continental US are termed "ConUS".
     
  12. zok4me2000

    zok4me2000 New Member

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    WOW starting to get more complex all the time. I got it. To jameslong I cannot get to your website as I'm getting a message that I do not have permissions. So when I'm in my RV and MUST call Dish Network when I go from city to city, it's the spotbeams that are being redirected/approved for my reception at my location. By the way, the process of this changing to the local channels is very broken. It always takes more then two calls and no customer service rep ever knows what to do.
     
  13. makaiguy

    makaiguy Icon

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    Your receiver receives authorization to receive the channels in your programming package. This includes authorization to receive the local channels for the area in which you are located. As long as you don't move so far that you are no longer in the footprint of the particular spotbeam carrying your locals, you will continue to receive them. Once you move far enough that your previous spotbeam can no longer reach you, you have to call to give your provider a new address and get your receiver authorized to receive the particular local channels for your new area, and reception of the old area's channels de-authorized.

    Spotbeams are often wide enough to carry locals from more than one major city but in most cases you'll only be authorized to receive the ones deemed to be in the DMA service area for the address they have on file. The actual aiming of the spotbeams themselves from the satellite is static and remains the same for everybody.
     
  14. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Take a look at this map (hopefully you can see them now):
    [​IMG]
    My locals are on "Transponder 30 Spotbeam 55" (from a satellite at 61.5). There are several other spotbeams across the country reusing Transponder 30 at 61.5 ... none overlap the one labeled 55.

    Technically I should be able to receive my locals anywhere within that circle labeled "55". I also have locals on "20s55" (transponder 20). Other channels on those transponders serve the Chicago and Lafayette areas. (Legally I should be within the eleven county market.)
     
  15. zok4me2000

    zok4me2000 New Member

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    How is it that the spotbeams are all not circular? They are odd shaped. Can I assume that the technology exists that the beams can be shaped to anything that they want? I live in Fairfield California midway between San Francisco and Sacramento. Dish gives me the choice of either city for my 'Locals.' So that means 2 spot beams cross over boundaries where I live?
     
  16. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The original spot beams were more circular ... at least from the perspective of the satellite. The ovals became more elongated when projected on the globe. Modern spotbeams can be shaped ... yes, satellite design is rocket science.

    Probably the best example of a shaped beam is the ConUS beam. To make the best use of the signal and to limit reception and interference in other countries, the ConUS shape has been refined to more closely match the country's borders ... including shaping signals that reach the 48 states plus Alaska and Hawaii without wasting signal on the Pacific Ocean. (And as shown on the map below, provide good coverage to Puerto Rico.)
    [​IMG]
     
  17. NYDutch

    NYDutch DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    A number of us have found the Dish online chat system to be more efficient for changing our service addresses than phone calls. The first contact is almost always successful, although sometimes they also change the billing address, despite being told not to. At least that's easily fixed in the MyDish account. And now there's the MyDish app feature that lets us change the service address ourselves if we have a Dish Outdoors flagged account.
     
  18. zok4me2000

    zok4me2000 New Member

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    I have never tried the online chat system as the internet connection has not been reliable in the times I really needed it. Hence the phone call. Additionally, the MyDish app will not work for me as I have tried but found out rather quickly that since I have a "Hybrid" account (I have no idea what that means, that's what I was told) I cannot use the App. Frustrating for sure.
     
  19. NYDutch

    NYDutch DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I have no idea either what a "Hybrid" account is. Obviously you need Internet access to use the chat system, so I guess we're fortunate that we've equipped our RV for that access wherever we've been so far. I'm reading that the MyDish app feature will be expanded to a wider user base at some point, but I haven't seen any timeline for that.
     
  20. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

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    Dish reportedly has a separate department for RV customers. Is that who you are calling?
     

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