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Explain it to me: TiVo/DirecTV easier to use...

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Earl Bonovich, Oct 8, 2007.

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  1. Oct 9, 2007 #201 of 302

    kmill14 Godfather

    Jun 12, 2007
    As a channel surfer, is the PIG really more important to you than a dual buffer or advanced search functionality or swivel search?
  2. Oct 9, 2007 #202 of 302

    Drew2k New Member

    Aug 16, 2006
    I agree 100%! It's crazy that you would never open the manual that came with your DVR!!! Imagine if you had, you would have found out about the recording defaults and wouldn't have had to wait for this thread!
  3. Oct 9, 2007 #203 of 302

    Drew2k New Member

    Aug 16, 2006
    I can't tell from your post if have you actually visited the CE forum Earl referred to earlier, but if you had you would know that the testing Earl is talking about is for new releases that offer new features. Of course DIRECTV tweaks existing features in each release, but this testing is what got us the new white GUI, the RED delete options on many screens, FFW correction, and soon ... improved search results, Remote Booking, and DirecTV-on-Demand. How anyone would characterize that as "struggling" is beyond me ...
  4. Oct 9, 2007 #204 of 302

    rmetcalf Mentor

    Jun 5, 2007
    Yeah... simply...

    When a week goes by that I don't have to reset one of my three HR-20s to bring back some of those cool features/functions... then I 'too' will get off the 'struggling' bandwagon...
  5. Oct 9, 2007 #205 of 302

    TheRatPatrol Hall Of Fame

    Oct 1, 2003
    Phoenix, AZ
    Sorry if this has been asked already, but do any of the Tivos have RF remotes? Thats the one thing I like best about the HR20, the RF works great.
  6. Oct 9, 2007 #206 of 302

    01ragtop Mentor

    Sep 17, 2007
    I know this was already posted, but if I could have only one thing it would be a "Save to VCR" makes it really nice for dumping to DVD!!!!
  7. Oct 9, 2007 #207 of 302

    tim99 Legend

    Sep 14, 2007
    None of these new features are a PVR's core competency. A PVR's core competency is recording TV shows. Recording of TV shows is not an invention nor a new technology. Its been working on several platforms including offerings from 1-2 man shops across a widely disparate group (windows hardware) and their software ‘never’ misses. And certainly not problematically so.

    Now a year later this PVR cannot execute its core function reliably. Whether it works for you or me is irrelevant, it clearly has a lot of issues among its rank and file.

    This would be analogues to buying a word processor that can translate in 50 different languages and they add 10 more languages and other new features every month but after a year they still can't get the software it to save documents reliably.

    Cannot reliably implement the A1 requirement and a known technology a year (?) after deployment.

    It’s a pretty well known problem, why hasn’t it been fixed by now? Just that no one has bothered?

    If they could have solved such a major problem they would have. But they haven’t. Struggling.

    That’s how I can say it.

  8. Oct 9, 2007 #208 of 302

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

    Jan 21, 2003
    Hmmm, never tried that. Never would see a reason to hit the record button in the ToDo list. I guess my only advice is to not do that. If you want to cancel something in the ToDo list hit the STOP button and coming soon the RED button with confirmation.
  9. Oct 9, 2007 #209 of 302

    karolinatx Cool Member

    Oct 4, 2006
    I've only had the HR20 since Friday and have been a TiVo user for over five years, and this statement, along with the observation that the HR20 is geared towards the live tv watcher, is what it really boils down to for me. For me, Live TV was always secondary to my Now Playing list. I've probably spent less than an hour of my life channel surfing since I got TiVo. I'd go as far as to say that TiVo is perfect for a user who likes to sit down and watch a show, and the HR20 is more geared towards folks who like to flip around. No wonder my husband likes it better. :rolleyes:

    Perhaps I'll warm to the changing menus, but for now I'll say having one permanent menu system is much more intuitive for me.

    Oh, and also? I keep trying to go left. :grin:
  10. Drew2k

    Drew2k New Member

    Aug 16, 2006
    Folks - the "tiny window" isn't just for live TV - it will also show the program you're watching from your playlist. Why flip channels? I never do. Except for live sports, 100% of everything I watch is from my playlist.
  11. bidger

    bidger Hall Of Fame

    Nov 19, 2005
    Agree with everything you posted. Only difference is I use a Home Theater Master MX-600 universal remote, but I can understand the appeal Harmony has for a lot of folks.

    I find the TiVo to be more intrusive and clingy. I'm no engineer, but I like having a 30 second slip button pre-programmed on the remote. I had to learn how to program the skip on the TiVo and I'm not sure if to this day they include that code in the manual.

    And as far as manuals, I don't read them front to back, but I keep them handy for reference.
  12. skakusha

    skakusha AllStar

    Sep 16, 2006
    Many of my friends and family members commented that the one thing they really liked about Tivo, was the "thumbs up" button press for recording a show via a commercial. I liked that feature as well, but it was not used 100%. It was a cool feature to be able to add a recording. Much nicer then doing a search, or going to the guide to find the show announced in the commercial. In terms of ratings, I can see how this feature would help networks grow audience and market share.

    As for me, I like the HR20 interface more from a speed and straight forward perspective of UI use. I like how easy it is to set up SL's, and the control I have over settings and options. The thing I miss most about the Tivo is the Season Pass capacity. I am not a big fan of the 50 SL's cap.
  13. Milominderbinder2

    Milominderbinder2 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '08

    Oct 8, 2006
    Many of the top Wish List requests are just requests to make the HR20 easy to use like TiVo. Here are 15...

    Dual Live Buffers - Toggle between two live shows with 30+ minute buffers on each.

    "Display only the channels that are in your current subscription package."

    Ability to edit all shows in the PRIORITIZER, even when there are none upcoming, page 28.

    Allow editing of the "CHANNELS I GET" list, similar to the way the OFF-AIR channel list is editable.

    Remember if the LIVE BUFFER is PAUSED, when using PREV to toggle between LIVE TV and recording PLAYBACK.

    Show program description in the "To Do List" and "History", instead of a static message.

    Add more program description INFO, to allow better SEARCHES and more show details, like "Original Air Date".

    Increase the maximum number of SERIES LINKS up from the current 50.

    OPTION to turn off PICTURE IN GUIDE/LIST/SETUP, to prevent "spoilers".

    When selecting PRIORITIZER from within a show's SERIES LINK set-up, the cursor should already be positioned at that show. OPTION for a TiVo-style GUIDE list (text-only, no GRID).

    Show "Delete / Don't Delete" popup when pressing EXIT in the last few minutes of a recording.

    OPTION to suppress On-screen graphics display (OSD) when saving a recording to DVD or tape.

    Always return to most recently accessed position on MY PLAYLIST when using LIST.

    AUTOTUNE capability, similar to other DirecTV receivers.

    RIGHT ARROW should mimic the SELECT key when practical.

    DIRECTV licensed the TiVo patent portfolio so they could do any of these that they wanted.

    - Craig
  14. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

    Nov 16, 2005
    Wylie, Texas
    And as I've mentioned, if you're "watching" something, why would you be doing anything else?

    If you're scheduling a show or doing something else in the menu system, why would you be watching something you recorded (on that little box in the upper right)?

    If you're scheduling a show or doing something else in the menu system, why would you want to be forced to see (and hear) something that's in the middle of being recorded?

    If something is important enough for me to record, I want to watch it as large as I can. I don't want to watch it in a little box. In other words, the only time the "tiny window" is useful is if it's showing something I don't really care about (live TV), which is why it's only useful when flipping channels. Which as you stated, isn't done very much on a DVR. Making that feature useless a majority of the time in addition to causing "spoilers" quite frequently.
  15. Juppers

    Juppers Icon

    Oct 26, 2006
    I do find the tivo trickplay functionality better than the hr20.

    I miss skip to tick with a single click as opposed to the 3 second button push.

    30 second slip is annoying, no matter how many times you can stack it.

    Advancing in the guide was much easier with tivo. ff would advance the guide to the next hour and a half or whatever the guide increment was. With the hr20 you move it by half hour increments or 12 hours, no middle ground.

    The guide information was much more complete with tivo, with the hr20 I see a ton of "No information available" descriptions, and alot of times ratings identifiers are missing as well, Fast Food Nation in the guide is R rated, with no tags as to why such as AC, AL, N, V, and it is far from the only one.

    As mentioned, it is too easy to accidentally delete a SL with the hr20. You try to stop a single episode from the guide and next thing you know the whole thing is gone.

    History had more information on tivo. It is rather lacking and often wrong with the hr20. Prison Break last night is in the history 3 times for the same channel and same time. 2 say Not recorded, the 3rd says deleted. Only the 3rd one is correct.

    Having said all that, the hr20 is not very far behind the tivo, and has surpassed it in several areas. I hope it continues to improve in the trick play and guide areas. Would love the up or down arrows to bring up the quick guide instead of having to push the blue button.

    Ok, I'm done rambling for a bit.
  16. skakusha

    skakusha AllStar

    Sep 16, 2006
    Is there an item on the Wishlist to allow you to jump back in a show when the "Delete Now of Keep Now" message pops up?

    I don't know about anyone else, but everyone I know that has an HR20, myself included, complains that jump forward gets away from them at the end of a show. Then in order to see the previews for next week's upcoming episode. you have to reselect the show in the playlist and fast forward or trick skip play to the end to watch the upcoming previews. I often screw up with the skip play and have to do it again.

    I am not sure if Tivo allows you to jump back after the show ended, but I know my Comcast DVR (which I hated) did this. This was the only positive thing about the Comcast DVR. I have since gone 100% to DTV in the last year, as I am not a big fan of Comcast.
  17. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

    Nov 16, 2005
    Wylie, Texas
    You can't do that with the tivo either (at least the D*TiVo). Once you hit the Delete screen, you have to go back to the list.
  18. personman

    personman Legend

    Apr 24, 2007
    On the Tivo and FF1X, you would still see the CC messages.

    On the HR20 (and every other DVR AFAIK) does not have this "feature."
  19. cartrivision

    cartrivision Hall Of Fame

    Jul 25, 2007
    He said that they are "still struggling with the software's core competency this long after deployment", and that's absolutely true. While they may be constantly adding new features, existing features are still full of bugs. Have you ever tried to use any of the playlist sorting options besides sort by date on an R15? How long have those options been there and been completely broken? If obvious bugs that can be clearly seen like that linger on and on, imaging how bad it is for the more obscure logical bugs that aren't so easy to see. To characterize the software development effort for the D* DVRs as "struggling" is actually being kind and giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'd characterize it more as being in a state of disarray.
  20. kmill14

    kmill14 Godfather

    Jun 12, 2007
    WTF Drew. I read the manual when I first got the machine, and I have used the machine for 6 months. For most people who have used a product for some time, they refer to the manual for troubleshooting only. Changing the defaults for recordings is NOT a troubleshooting question.

    I understand there are a number of people who are VERY passionate about this new system, but get this straight in your stubborn skulls. The HR-20 interface is not straight forward.

    Things are not always in obvious places for most people. Case in point:

    This is first and foremost a DVR. A recording device. While watching TV, I hit Menu and want to see my recording options. The menu list goes as such:
    1. Help and Settings (which by the way is first, but is ABOVE the default cursor spot, which could confuse some people)
    2. My Playlist
    3. Music and Photos
    4. Audio Options
    5. Favorites
    6. Previous Ch's
    7. Search
    8. Caller ID & Messages
    9. Parental

    Ok. So why was it determined that the "Scheduler" items should not be here ahead of Music and Photos, Favorites (a SETUP feature) , Caller ID, or Parental (another SETUP option). I would think people would use the "Scheduler" feature a lot more than most of these other choices.

    Also, why was it decided that the "Menu" would be ever-changing, depending on where you are in the system? Is that in the manual somewhere? Most people assume (based on other software designs) that the "Menu" selection would be constant no matter what screen you are on.

    Why is there not a selection option when setting up a Series Link to change the defaults right there?
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