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Fair and balanced press...

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Richard King, Jul 25, 2003.

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  1. Bogy

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    I really don't know what you are talking about.

    There really is no more reason to talk with you. I knew and know what fascism is. You claim it doesn't bother you a bit, but you sure are bugged that I inferred you might have such tendencies. Is conservatism at all on the right wing, or are you now claiming you are leftie? What I presented also stated that conservatives and fascists did at times work together. Read all of the articles. Or is the encyclopedia also to liberal for you?

    My "jealousy" charge holds just as much as your's, and your continual "class warfare" charge.
     
  2. Bogy

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    There you go again.
     
  3. lastmanstanding

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    The essay says that fascism is complex, and takes many forms. I'm not in a hole, I am not embarrassed, and I know that I am not. I understand that your education has been lacking. I am a teach and because you have missed a great deal of history I am willing to share my knowledge.

    Bogy,

    I am so glad you are getting in touch with yourself and where you are. Your silence had me concerned. No, really.

    So you are offering to be my private tutor? Terrific.

    Now please clarify that jealousy thing so we can put it behind us. Enlighten me, please, teach.

    LMS
     
  4. RichW

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    "Of course, by doing that you just wiped out the most "important" colleges in the country. The ones that will have the most profound impact on our country because they generate more leaders than other colleges. "

    So then the question begs asking... "Is their 'liberal-mindedness' the reason that they generate these leaders?"

    The fact that a place like Harvard or Yale can produce politicians on both sides of the aisle is a credit, not a discredit. Even "bastions of socialism" (snicker-snicker) like Cal or Wisconsin or The Peoples Republic of Eugene (U of Oregon) produce a hefty share of leaders across the political spectrum. Now name me some prominent liberals who came out of Oral Roberts University or Bob Jones U. :)

    To be fair (and balanced) some consider majors like Columbia, Notre Dame, and U of Chicago making the Conservative list. I don't know about Columbia, but N.D. and U of C students are about as liberal as they come.
     
  5. toenail

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    Answer: I doubt that the "liberalness" of their invited speakers adds greatly to their ability to generate great leaders. That is what I thought we were talking about. You're using two different meanings of the word "liberal." Similar to the fallacy in St. Thomas's "proof" of the existence of God. I'm talking about politically liberal speakers. You are not automatically a "liberal" just because you majored in "liberal" arts. Take me, for example. ;) I was a philosophy major. One can get a "liberal" education and not be politically liberal.
     
  6. lee635

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    Hehe, you are priceless. :sure: I take an uninterrupted section of your list to use as a sample, and in your opinion that's biased, but when your source picks and chooses their sample, that's solid evidence? As I said, I took the bottom half of the top 50 list because they more likely represent the population of US colleges and universities in general.

    You didn't say that you disagreed with my logic of the bottom 25 more closely representing the population, so by your logic I should assume that you agree with me on that point? Do you disagree with my assumption? I want to hear your argument for why the top 25 members of that list better represent all American colleges and universities. Please!!!!

    "Of course, by doing that you just wiped out the most "important" colleges in the country." So are you now "revising" your argument to say that it's only the top 25 colleges in America that you have a beef with? Please clarify exactly which colleges are in your population of conspirators. I assert that your agenda is that you have a beef only with those colleges retaining speakers with views that you don't agree with. :p

    "By taking the "bottom" group, you implicitly acknowledge that the "top" group DID have a disproportionate ratio of liberal speakers." Hehe, so by your thinking I can assume that every college and university not chosen for their sample by your source must have been conservative! :grin: You really are a lawyer!

    You never did address the issue of your source's use of a non-random sampling technique, but since their outcomes matched your needs, you don't feel the need to talk about that.

    Gee, it looks like your rock solid, so accepted as true that we don't even need to debate it position is at the very least worthy of discussion and certainly not the slam dunk you claimed it to be. Am I right?
     
  7. lastmanstanding

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    Bogy, please explain yourself. You offered to teach, so TEACH! Pointless words on a screen do not serve you well, professor.

    Jealousy please? Need help seeing the edge of the hole?

    LMS
     
  8. lee635

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    The People's Republic Of Eugene has a thriving business school that is among UO's largest programs, and, as many business schools across the US, it would likely be considered a conservative school. So attempts at monolithic descriptions of even places like the UO are difficult to pin down once one digs past the sound bite.

    Of course, programs such as UO's Labor Education Research Center (LERC) with its popular summer activist training programs likely gets under the skin of many a right winger. ;)
     
  9. lastmanstanding

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    Hi Rich,

    I am afraid you suffer from Bogy's problem. You paint the page with pointless words because of the way they sound, and then are unwilling or unable to discuss them. Says a whole lot.

    Be careful with the shovel, you might hit Bogy. Are you taking turns digging?




    LMS
     
  10. lastmanstanding

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    "Taxes are what we pay for a civilized society."
    Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, 1927

    Lee,

    Are we getting our money's worth? Have we ever?


    LMS
     
  11. toenail

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    So you want me to check into the issue of the alleged non-random sampling technique? Okay, fine, I will. But you may not like the answer. It may not fit your pre-conceived notions. And since the top half DID invite a non-disputed disproportionately liberal group of speakers, I have a hard time apologizing for being correct on the issue. And I haven't even researched the bottom half yet. But I'd be willing to wager....

    A little side note: We may actually all be full of it here, but I do enjoy the debate. There probably is no "right" answer to most of these issues, but debating them is a lot more interesting than most of the sites on the net, or playing chess, or whatever. Thanks for the stimulation, you guys!! Take care.
     
  12. Bogy

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    C'mon LMS, you can't be that dense. Your class bashing, anger filled posts show how jealous you are of the "lucky duckies"(to use the Wall Street Journal's phrase) who don't have to pay federal income tax because they have little or no money. You would really like to see these people pay taxes, if you could just figure out how to get blood out of a stone.
     
  13. Timco

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    So to recap:

    conservatism = status quo
    Liberalism = change status quo

    Please correct me if I am wrong.
     
  14. toenail

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    I saw another definition today that may also fit:

    liberal= progressive
    conservative= thoughtful?

    this was suggested by a liberal writer, with a little tongue in cheek, of course!
     
  15. Timco

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    :)
     
  16. lastmanstanding

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    Sorry Bogy, no cigar. Put the shovel down before you bury yourself and Rich. My point was, but I needed to understand your perception before I could clarify, was that if the tax cuts were truly a form of class warfare, they wouldn't exclude 50% of the population from taxation altogether, and widen the fraction who pay little or no tax. To follow through on the premise that the capitalists profit by oppressing the underclass, imposing taxes on the poor would be in order, and not only the poor, but the under $50K crowd (with families). Thanks for catering to my denseness.

    Comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable since 1981

    Words to live by. Do I smell a double standard? I think I do, you stinky thing!

    Oh, BTW. I make well over seven figures a year, and pay ZERO Federal and State taxes. It can be done within the law, but requires substantial charity and some other things. I don't like revealing too many personal details, but to prove you wrong yet again was too tempting. Shame on you, Bogy. You make this too easy.

    So you are wrong on the jealousy thing, and you apply a double standard to class warfare issues.

    Thanks for finally answering. It took more courage than you realize.

    LMS
     
  17. lastmanstanding

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    Hey Timco,

    Those are the simplest and perhaps the only real definitions that mean anything.

    There is too much spin on all sides to take it much further.

    LMS
     
  18. Mark Holtz

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    Despite going off the posted topic of "Fair and Balanced Press", this has been a fascinating discussion. - Holtz
     
  19. lastmanstanding

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    Mark,

    Whew! When I saw your name on the email, I thought the Heat was coming to shut us down. We tend to run really really of topic. Thank you for your tolerance. Glad you enjoy the sparing.

    LMS
     
  20. RichW

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    That pretty much covers the mainstream in each category, but he extremes are more like:

    Neo-con = change the status quo to what it was during the Coolidge Administration.

    Ultra-lib = change the staus quo to what it might be 200 years from now.

    Personally I like the somwhat neutral definition of:

    If you are not liberal you have no heart. If you are not conservative, you have no head.

    This is the reason I describe myself as a social liberal, fiscal conservative. Let's make the best society we can afford to have.

    One of these days I might post a piece of satire on political persuasions that I wrote for the San Jose Mercury about 15 years ago.
     
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