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FCC Approves Dish Acquisition of Sky Angel's Transponders at 61.5°

16K views 55 replies 23 participants last post by  aegrotatio 
#1 ·
"EchoStar Satellite Operating Corporation seeks FCC consent to the assignment of Dominion Video Satellite, Inc.'s authorization to operate on 8 DBS channels (25-32) at 61.5 W.L."
FCC Filing Info

As noted in the Sky Angel forum, Sky Angel is moving to become an IPTV service.
This transfer would give E* licenses for 30 of the 32 transponder channels at 61.5°.
 
#3 ·
James Long said:
"EchoStar Satellite Operating Corporation seeks FCC consent to the assignment of Dominion Video Satellite, Inc.'s authorization to operate on 8 DBS channels (25-32) at 61.5 W.L."
FCC Filing Info

As noted in the Sky Angel forum, Sky Angel is moving to become an IPTV service.
This transfer would give E* licenses for 30 of the 32 transponder channels at 61.5°.
So who gets the other two transponders?
 
#5 ·
We could see a replay of the argument at the FCC over E* taking over the Voom licenses at 61.5°. Voom had 11 licensed transponders and Sky Angel has 8. Rehash the debate (which did not seem to be much at the FCC) over whether those licensed transponders should go to a company with plenty of bandwidth (104 DBS transponders licensed - D* has 46 DBS transponders) or if they should be set aside for some third party that has yet to make a serious bid to become a DBS provider.

The two transponders under STA remain in limbo ... at the launch of E3 E* used those transponders as needed (as well as the Cablevision/Voom transponders under STA until the Voom service was launched). When the FCC transfered the V* licenses they left those STA transponders in limbo ... waiting for that third party.

What kind of viable service can be done on two transponders? Perhaps one could launch 70-80 channels of SD MPEG4 ... and if one could get the SkyAngel transponders one could have a system of 350-400 channels total. Would such system, especially from 61.5°, be viable?

Voom tried it on 13 transponders ... 11 licensed and 2 under STA. Perhaps they entered the market too early (although they barely met their FCC construction and launch deadlines). Would a Voom like service with today's technology and marketplace survive any better?

SkyAngel had 8 transponders ... their FCC construction and launch deadlines were never met - just waived as they made their deal with E* for use of E3. They self limited their system to 2 transponders and all "religious" channels. But they too struggled. The original plan (all religious) was discarded last year when they introduced secular channels to the lineup. The expense of paying for the rights to carry those secular channels caught up with them this year and they decided to charge "lifetime" subscribers extra for these four channels (something they should have done for all subscribers last year). Instead of being a cashless operation with ministries paying for their delivery to SkyAngel (no rights fees), E* paying for satellite uplink and delivery per their arrangement and non-lifetime customers whatever "other costs" there were (billing, advertisement, production for Angel-2, etc) they added channels that wanted rights fees. Now they are going a different way. They, like Voom, have failed.

So who is the next contestant? For the FCC to block this transfer there needs to be another viable bid for use of that space. Some company who can afford to launch a satellite (no guarantee that E* will lease E3 to them) and provide receivers and all the ground support for a DBS system. I don't see that happening.

The argument is the same as it was in 2005 and likely it will have the same outcome ... E* will get the transponders. Whether or not the FCC releases the STA transponders is irrelevant as long as they keep renewing the STA. They might as well leave them as STA in case that third party ever appears.
 
#6 ·
Of course, if the FCC denies the transfer, there would likely be no transfer. A third party would need some cash. It is hard to suspect the FCC will not approve this, since the majority of the transponders have been providing DiSH Network service anyway.

The STA is somewhat troublesome due to the constraints placed on the use of the frequencies. There would be no service which could be considered "permanent" since the notification requirements would be there.
 
#10 ·
Terry K said:
Has it occurred to anyone that D* could make a run for those? Perhaps a creative way to load a bunch of small market locals in when they have to go off the 72 location next year?
That would be nice for D*, but SkyAngel has a deal with E* for the transfer. The FCC would have to deny the transfer AND revolke SkyAngel's licenses for the transponders to be available to anyone else. (Should the transfer fail SkyAngel maintains control of the transponders until their licenses expire.)
Geronimo said:
I am nots ure I follow. How does one affect the other in this manner/
"Reverse DBS" opens up a lot more space for DBS services. The argument that DBS space is a finite resource that should be shared between more than two providers is less convincing on the heels of the FCC opening up much more space for future DBS.
 
#12 ·
I blame the FCC for the "Reverse DBS" label. It is not entirely reversed, just allowing the "earth to space" frequencies of DBS to be used as "space to earth" on the new assignments. The "earth to space" of the new service is in the 24GHz band.

Prior discussion and links to the FCC here. This is where the FCC calls it "reverse band".
 
#13 ·
James Long said:
T"Reverse DBS" opens up a lot more space for DBS services. The argument that DBS space is a finite resource that should be shared between more than two providers is less convincing on the heels of the FCC opening up much more space for future DBS.
Maybe I am missing something but you seem to be arguing that the earlier poster was incorrect.
 
#17 ·
JohnH said:
Dominion is saying the transition may take a year.
If it is anything like other things that Dominion says (like having their own uplink center that they said that they would have ever since they started service) it may take longer than that. I also expect to see a "class action" (lawsuit) from "lifetime" subscribers who are no longer going to be able to get the service via satellite and will be required to pay for another receiver that might not have all the (DVR, two tuners) features that their current receiver has.
 
#18 ·
I don't remember exactly how long it took for the Rainbow1 transfer, but it was less than a year. Good point about needing a replacement for E3. This deal adds "1.75 transponders" until E* can get a fully working satellite up there. (I suspect that won't take long.)

If I had to make a wild guess about the future I would say 61.5° would be one of the the target orbital locations for the new MPEG4 service. But that is a wild guess.
 
#19 ·
Should mention, the "transition" is from Satellite delivery to IPTV delivery of the Sky Angel service. Regardless of how long the FCC function takes, the Sky Angel Satellite service would likely still exist until that "transition" is complete.


James, it would seem that 61.5 would not be one of the "two" MPEG4 slots since it is too far from a good ConUS location.

BTW: AMC-16 made a second stop, this time at 97w.
 
#20 ·
My thought was two MPEG4 service slots ... not a two orbital location service. Point your dish at the one you can see (within reason). Until E* releases the details it is all guesswork - I did label my guess as "wild". :)
 
#22 ·
Dish500 would be acceptable size and is a proven concept on 9° spacings (which is really a 9° to 18° spacing from the ground depending on how far north you are). That is where I suspect narrower spacing will fail ... trying to get 4° spaced satellites on a dish designed for Florida or San Diego in Maine or Washington. Unless the new dish has an adjustment for spacing between LNBs 4° is going to be "interesting". There are no paired DBS locations available (where a Dish500 could hit two DBS birds) without killing the MPEG2 services. I'm still leaning toward two single satellite locations - pick one and aim an 18" dish.

Anything other than DBS is going to need new LNBFs. If it isn't DBS it could be fun getting a signal to a small dish - and if it isn't an existing band getting FCC approval and satellites built and launched quickly is near impossible. That makes it easy (for me) to dismiss "Reverse DBS" and new allotments.

E* may be planning to use their KuX assignments for this ... but anything other than the usual DBS or FSS or Ka is kind of off the map. 77° is a possibilty, with FCC approval, and doable (15.5° sky spread with Canadian 72° nestled in between).

Plenty of options ... the important thing (especially for this thread) is E* securing the asset. They have had use of six of SkyAngel's transponders (less failures) at 61.5° since they launched the satellite. Not losing that space and gaining the two SkyAngel used transponders is important ... regardless of what they put there.
 
#23 ·
It is likely (if not certain) that Rainbow-1 will have it's spots fired back up finally. Once this occurs, expect to see the NYC locals & many of those now found on 118.7 moved to it pronto. HD & SD now that they are out of the Distants market. Also expect to see E3 replaced soon. Likely with a leased bird. ;0

-Doggfather
 
#25 ·
Bill R said:
If it is anything like other things that Dominion says (like having their own uplink center that they said that they would have ever since they started service) it may take longer than that. I also expect to see a "class action" (lawsuit) from "lifetime" subscribers who are no longer going to be able to get the service via satellite and will be required to pay for another receiver that might not have all the (DVR, two tuners) features that their current receiver has.
Based on the thread on sky angel relevant to this, the sky angel subbers (lifetime or otherwise) don't seem to much care.

I have broadband already (many sky angel subbers probably don't -- why control TV but let in the internet?) so I have no added cost there. But I'm not keen about not having the Sky angel channels on the guide, about having to purchase another receiver (or use a computer to watch them, right...) about not having DVR. I got a lifetime sub years ago for the "family and classic TV" part that they advertised. It seemed like a good deal. Right now I have sky angels channels on 3 dvrs, along with dish's top 250, locals, the HD package and some superstations. Sky angels plans mean less convenience and more cost to me, for a service that I only occasionally watch, but enjoyed having. I imagine quite a few of their lifetime subbers are casual watchers like me, who got it because they already had dish and thought it might be worth it. I can't imagine they won't be losing viewers over this, perhaps more than they gain, but I guess they must have done some study that says otherwise. Just the idea that I'd have to purchase 1-3 more receivers (and unless they're wireless, working out wiring to three rooms) sounds like more trouble than the service is worth. But we'll see what the requirements actually are.
 
#26 ·
Bill R said:
If it is anything like other things that Dominion says (like having their own uplink center that they said that they would have ever since they started service) it may take longer than that. I also expect to see a "class action" (lawsuit) from "lifetime" subscribers who are no longer going to be able to get the service via satellite and will be required to pay for another receiver that might not have all the (DVR, two tuners) features that their current receiver has.
SkyAngel has always piggybacked off of E* equipment ... so not having the features of E* receivers is not their concern. Moving to IPTV could actually add other features, such as a rewind (watch anything that was on in the past 48 hours). When you're doing one to one communications over the net you might as well stream what people want instead of what is on now.

Not having broadband is the killer though ... that and asking "lifetime" subscribers to buy a $120 receiver plus $25 per month service (their Canadian rates). Perhaps when IPTV is released the rates will be better ... I doubt it.

There are "lifetime" subscribers who believe they got their money's worth ... but won't give another dime to the company. Unfortunately that applies to the satellite model as well. SkyAngel depends on people who support whether or not they are getting their money's worth.

One more interesting thought ... let a ViP-622 DVR or ViP-211 be a SkyAngel terminal. That would help, for those on E* with broadband.
 
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