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FCC Approves E-8 Move to 77 W

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by Bill R, Sep 4, 2008.

  1. Aransay

    Aransay Icon

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    Jun 19, 2006
    here ienxmciotheya re rumso that dish emnxico oeprtiosna re n hold, thwe echsostar hsosling emxico ahs eben creted btu the decison of tehs tart of the enw sysme ahs eben spsopoend as a cosneuene of the financial crisis ahve yoy have herd anythign enw about ti BILL_ ian davcne thx
     
  2. Bill R

    Bill R Hall Of Fame

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    Dec 20, 2002
    Aransay,

    From what I understand from your post I think that you are saying that DISH Mexico is on hold. I had not heard that and I scanned all the news sources and did not see anything about that. We get very little information on services in Mexico and it is likely that a press release would be in Spanish so I might have missed it.
     
  3. Aransay

    Aransay Icon

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    Jun 19, 2006
    ehre ei the slatest rpes reelase abaotu dishe xmico service




    wah rumrot aht dish is on hodl coem forma soruce at mvs tleport i downt ebelvi3 it btu ehr uymro ti , he si oen fot eh biggest d peopl defendign mvs

    Im trying toif in info with my epsonal socue at quetzats i a diona antiyhing iw dl alwatys codmunciate it gladly

    La empresa conjunta de MVS Multivisión y EchoStar para rivalizar con Sky (Directv Holding), nacerá por escisión en 45 días, su nombre Dish México Holdings ¿Y Telmex?

    Después de la etapa de coqueteo y noviazgo que requirió más de un año, MVS Multivisión decidió crear una nueva empresa que llevará el nombre de su socio Dish Network, unidad de EchoStar Communications Corporation, uno de los principales proveedores de televisión vía satélite o DTH en EU, servicio que en México domina Sky por no tener competencia. Pero ya no sera mas asi.

    Para reforzar su nuevo proyecto , Multivisión, un grupo que participa en los negocios de televisión de paga, radio, editorial, acceso a Internet, y restaurantes a través de Corporación Mexicana de Restaurantes (CMR), agregará a Telmex, el gigante de las telecomunicaciones propiedad de Carlos Slim Helú. Y al entrar Carlos Slim, cambia el panorama de esa competencia para Sky.

    “Es una alianza entre tres. Va Telmex, MVS y EchoStar para lanzar en el mercado mexicano un sistema de televisión directa al hogar vía satélite, con una tarifa muy competitiva respecto a la única opción que hay el mercado actualmente”, explicó una persona cercana a las negociaciones.

    “Telmex llevaría la parte de cobranza y comercialización. MVS estará con la parte de estudios, grabación y base de suscriptores. Dish pone una buena parte de la tecnológica”, explicó.


    In shrot ists ays dishe xmcio in 45 days
    offial name Dish México Holdings
    comanys< mvs, dish and tlemex, 8nothing abotu qeutzat here ( staneg queta isthe hdoelr of 77 west and one dth lcie my frioend mybisgest sorue wols for quetzat(
     
  4. Aransay

    Aransay Icon

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    Jun 19, 2006
    Two Line Element Set (TLE):


    1 27501U 02039A 08298.62432723 -.00000258 00000-0 00000+0 0 2881
    2 27501 000.0372 287.6074 0004847 338.0110 272.9442 01.00451394 22654

    More details about ECHOSTAR 8
     
  5. Stephen J

    Stephen J Legend

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    Mar 26, 2006
    Wouldn't it make more sense to move E8 back to 110, and move E11 to 129, since E11 has the ability to be effective from any orbital slot. E8 was designed to be used at 110, and will not work as well at 77.

    I realize that this is all hypothetical, and hopefully won't need to be explored.
     
  6. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Salem, OR
    E11 lacks the desired spotbeam capability.
     
  7. Stephen J

    Stephen J Legend

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    Mar 26, 2006
    But would E8s spotbeams work at 77 or 129? At least with E11 they will have solid CONUS transponders that will work better than E8s would at 129. It's like how E5 doesn't work perfectly at 129 because it was'nt designed to work their.
     
  8. Bill R

    Bill R Hall Of Fame

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    Spot beams are MUCH more critical than national beams. Generally a satellite can be "adjusted" so that the nation beams are usable from a different slot than what the satellite was designed for. That is not so with spot beams. While some of the newer satellites (I don't know about E*8) have steerable spot beams there is a limit of how far (or fine) they can be adjusted. We will just have to wait and see what DISH does with E*8. I'm sure that they have done some computer simulations and have a good idea of what E*8's footprint (national and spot beams) will be from 77 degrees but until the satellite is there and they have some real data from various parts of the U.S. they won't know EXACTLY what to expect from E*8.
     
  9. rocatman

    rocatman Icon

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    Nov 27, 2003
    In the Dish 's application to the FCC for use of E-8 at 77 W, no mention was made of spotbeam usage, only the CONUS beams therefore no spotbeams. In the application though, they do have CONUS beam maps as well as the coverage that can be provided to Mexico. These tend to be fairly accurate so there is not a lot of guess work on the downlink signal coverage.
     
  10. JohnH

    JohnH Hall Of Fame

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    New TLE still looks like Wednesday:

    ECHOSTAR 8
    1 27501U 02039A 08301.75418551 -.00000250 00000-0 10000-3 0 2903
    2 27501 000.0273 284.0060 0003713 340.0744 326.0068 01.00408642 22683
     
  11. Aransay

    Aransay Icon

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    Jun 19, 2006
    [W77.26 at 8:03 p.m. est.
     
  12. alebowgm

    alebowgm Hall Of Fame

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    James, I know it is mostly just out of courisoity, but would you be able to get your computer program to just draw what the E8 spotbeams would be projected at without adjustment from the 77w orbital location. I know the application showed ConUS coverage, but I am just wondering what they would hypathetically look like. The one that is in the northeast would maybe be out over detroit and the one in Flordia would probably be out in New Orleans or Houston?
     
  13. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Michiana
    Probably not worth clicking on, but here is where the spots could fall if they were just shifted 33° east (like the satellite).

    Nowhere near accurate as the satellite will be "turned" so the ConUS hits the US instead of the Atlantic ocean. I'd expect spots closer to the center of the country to be pretty close to where they were at 110° just not the same shape.

    I'll be surprised if DISH tries to use the spotbeams on E8 at 77°. The reception spots also come into play. Twisting the satellite so Gilbert and Cheyenne are in the uplink beams may push the east coast spots too far to the west. If too many spots are unusable DISH might as well keep the signals ConUS.

    Satellites use spotbeams to reuse transponders in different parts of the country. If only one of those spots is usable there is no need for the signal to be spotbeamed. With MPEG4 DISH isn't in much of a crunch for space. They could put the remaining eastern markets up in SD on 77° and wait for the next satellite before worrying about spots and HD local feeds.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. rocatman

    rocatman Icon

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    Based on your projected spotbeam map for E-8 at 77 W, Dish would have use of 7 or 8 TPs using spotbeams requiring that 4 TPs be dedicated to those spotbeams. It might be worth it especially in the Northeast where 3 TPs would be available but would probably preclude the ability to provide signal to Mexico because of power limitations. Mexico service is needed in order for Dish to use the 77 W slot.
     
  15. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    A reminder of what E8 could do ...
    Five transponders were available for use as spots, each of those five could be reused five times.
    Each spot had one to three transponders on it ... (spot referring to a place on the earth not a spot transponder that served it).

    Spot 1 had two transponders (4 and 6)
    Spot 2 had two transponders (2 and 6)
    Spot 3 had one transponder (10)
    Spot 4 had three transponders (2, 8 and 10)
    Spot 5 had two transponders (4 and 6)
    Spot 6 had three transponder (2, 8 and 10)
    Spot 7 had two transponders (8 and 10)
    Spot 8 had one transponder (2)
    Spot 9 had one transponder (4)
    Spot 10 had one transponder (6)
    Spot 11 had one transponder (2)
    Spot 12 had one transponder (6)
    Spot 13 had two transponders (8 and 10)
    Spot 14 had one transponder (8)
    Spot 15 had one transponder (4)
    Spot 16 had one transponder (4)
    (Spot referring to a place on the earth - transponder referring to the spot transponder that served it.)

    If DISH decided to use 2,4,6,8 and 10 for spots and turn on what would work it wouldn't be too bad - but three things would have to happen.
    1) Receive beams would have to pick up, separately, the signals of Gilbert and Cheyenne
    2) Downlink beams would have to land in useful positions
    3) DISH would need to have need of two spots needing use of the same transponder

    That third hurdle, need, is the one that I believe would prevent DISH from using spots more than the others. Unless DISH had need to reuse the frequency why bother transmitting spots? Initially 77° will be virtually empty ... even if a pairing was found where a spot beam capable frequency could be used in two valuable locations it would be easier to just keep it ConUS until the satellite fills up.
     
  16. alebowgm

    alebowgm Hall Of Fame

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    Unless Dish wanted to restrict whatever programming they were putting on that TP only to those in the immediate region. Say, to prevent 'movers'. Odds are you are right, but that could be a scenario where it would make sense.

    Perhaps you can add the TP #s that the spots on E8 use to the map you provided, then it would be obvious what TPs can be duplicated between 2-4-6-8-10.
     
  17. Aransay

    Aransay Icon

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    Jun 19, 2006
    what i downt egt si why amntaing mexico siganlas in nagra 2 an mpge2

    My coturny ahs big rpbelsm of priacy
    veryone knows hat
    \
    Nagra 3 adn mpge4 like the taes shoul be the dieal whty the difference he,

    use o the trcsh form cyvle receviers form the staes WHy sue tos e moeny unil eh new oens a redy starneg
     
  18. alebowgm

    alebowgm Hall Of Fame

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    Aransay, the reason why it is probably N2 and MPEG 2 is the cost of implementing the N3 and MPEG 4 system. Moreover, when you take into consideration that DISH is currently switching over to this system, there is going to be a flood of N2 and MPEG 2 equipment - legal and off the books - that the new Dish Network Mexico system is going to be able to use, and the cost won't be that much. Think of all the legacy recievers such as the 2700's and 3100's that Dish has taken in over the last years as they have upgraded customers.

    With that said, I do agree that it would just make more sense from a security standpoint to use N3 and MPEG4.
     
  19. JohnH

    JohnH Hall Of Fame

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    EchoStar 8 should be at 77w. Latest TLE projection puts it a little east of 77w at this time and moving extremely slowly.
     
  20. Aransay

    Aransay Icon

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    Jun 19, 2006
    iwoduelcotninisulyeb cheking ti today al day ueneil sye chaneg ia dish rpioined to 77 jsut tomontiro aht hapens
     

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