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Feb. 17 DTV Date May Have To Move

Discussion in 'Local Reception' started by kocuba, Jan 8, 2009.

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  1. Jan 9, 2009 #61 of 269
    Cholly

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    All TV and radio stations. Surely, you don't think they're using thousands of transistors to come up with ten to fifty kw. of output power! !rolling
     
  2. Jan 9, 2009 #62 of 269
    harsh

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    I'm not sure, but it seems like 40% of the coupons expired and they're not letting them issue new ones to new customers. Let's do the math:

    nn million coupons X 40 dollars/coupon = 1mm million dollars.

    The whole transition program had an overall budget of over one billion, right?

    Did it really cost that much to do the education part and administer the program?

    Of course the real issue is all of those that got coupons but couldn't find a box to spend them on and can't get replacement coupons since theirs expired.

    Clearly this project wasn't designed to serve the public interest as much as it was to spend large sums of money keeping people employed.
     
  3. Jan 9, 2009 #63 of 269
    scooper

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  4. Jan 9, 2009 #64 of 269
    Upstream

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    I can't imagine there are a lot of people who are not ready at all.

    But there are probably a lot like me who are partially not ready.

    I have cable/sat service to most of my TVs, so I don't have to do anything to them. But I have used OTA in the past when I've lost the sat signal due to rain fade. My primary TV is a Digital TV, so there is no problem getting reception there. But I still have some analog TVs which would be dark if the cable/sat signal went out. Plus I have one analog TV that is not hooked up to cable/sat at all (though it is rarely used).

    Plus I have a DVR recorder with an analog tuner which I occassionally use (especially when I want to record an additional program after the tuners on my DVR are both in use).

    So on Feb 18, I won't notice any problem. But there may be some day in June when I wish I had a converter box for one of my analog devices.
     
  5. Jan 9, 2009 #65 of 269
    harsh

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    I think you underestimate the capability of MOS FET and LDMOS FET power transistors.
     
  6. Jan 9, 2009 #66 of 269
    harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Proper modern clocks get their time reference from:

    1. The Internet
    2. GPS
    3. Radio signal (my wristwatch tunes WWV)

    Plus devices like video recorders, wireless phones and satellite radios which get their time reference from standard channels.

    There's no excuse not to tie the time to an externally generated time base.
     
  7. Jan 9, 2009 #67 of 269
    Doug Brott

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    Not to mention that 7% will be 3.5% the day after the transition when folks realize .. oops I need a box (or new TV) and simply go get one. :shrug:
     
  8. Jan 9, 2009 #68 of 269
    James Long

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    Not all ... I've seen 10k transmitters that are all solid state transistor modules (each power module giving out 500w and adding them together in various ways).

    But yes ... when you get to big power you talking at least one big tube. Both tubes failing is the reason why my local PBS analog went dead (and stayed dead) last March. I have found several stations milking their analogs along hoping they will last another now 39 days.
     
  9. Jan 9, 2009 #69 of 269
    James Long

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    Time zones tell you what to do with that base. It wasn't easy or cheap to adjust all of the devices that relied on "First Sunday in April" to "Second Sunday in March". Especially embedded devices. Yes, they get a time reference from somewhere ... but defining the offsets based on the date is the challenge.
     
  10. Jan 9, 2009 #70 of 269
    techdimwit

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    Imagine that. I guess folks haven't had much time to get this thing taken care of. Let's see, we've been warned about this for five years. No, of course, that can't be long enough.

    Ridiculous to hold this up another minute past Feb. 17. You snooze, you lose. Americans need to grow up, quit whining and do what has to be done.

    If the gov. ran out of coupons, the stores should drop the price accordingly. Looking at the thing, it couldn't have cost more than $5.00 to make so there'd be no big loss.

    Delay is absolutely idiotic. If the congress goes along with this they are a lot stupider than I already think they are.
     
  11. Jan 10, 2009 #71 of 269
    harsh

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    WWV broadcasts a daylight savings flag. From there all you need to do is set your time zone and whether or not you participate in daylight savings.
     
  12. Jan 10, 2009 #72 of 269
    James Long

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    Not all methods broadcast a flag ... you belittle the effort taken by people across the country to adjust for the date change.

    I expect that there are many devices still not aware of the change in dates of time change and there are devices that cannot be modified. I suppose the government should pay to upgrade and replace all of those devices?

    Anyways ... that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about the potential extension of analog television.
     
  13. Jan 10, 2009 #73 of 269
    samhevener

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    I think the original shutdown was to be when 85% of the people in a given market own or purchase TVs with digital tuners. The shutdown was to be market by market. The big broadcasting companies discovered it costs extra money to operate 2 transmitters and had congress speed up the shutdown and come up with the idea of the government giving out coupons. The millions of dollars spent on these coupons was because the broadcasters rushed the shutdown. The original shutdown plan of 85% DTVs in each market would not have required any government coupon money. I just can't understand one thing. If you have a digital TV and receive digital transmissions, what difference does it make to you if the analog stations stay on the air. It seems to me it's a little like the old saying, "I have it and the heck with you." Unless, of course, you are a stockholder in a broadcasting conpany. The freed up frequencies auctions that have been awarded I'm sure the government had it's usual disclaimers for delays or even to cancel an award. I have yet to see a thread in this site that is from someone who DOESN'T have equipment to receive digital signals.
     
  14. Jan 10, 2009 #74 of 269
    HDTVFreak07

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    It is just a big mistake to postpone the inevitable. People have had more than enough time to get moving with the transition. For the many of us that have already made the transition, it would be UNFAIR for us when the power goes out, our local stations will use the generator for analog signals only (like they're currently doing until the analog cut off date). They need to leave well enough alone. People have had plenty of time to make the transition and it has been heavily "advertised" for people to wake up!!!
     
  15. Jan 10, 2009 #75 of 269
    jessshaun

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    There is a difference in being able to receive and actually getting the signal.

    For instance, I have the equipment to be able to receive digital signals with my directv receiver and TV.

    BUT... 2 channels will not go full power digital until after the analog cutoff. I can't receive those channels (NBC and FOX). There are other stations doing the same thing. I say let them go full power and cutoff the analog on Feb 17th. Those that can't receive the channel will go out a buy a box, or find a way to buy a box. When your TV doesn't work, you will find a way to make it work. They will be calling the station, asking why they can't receive the signal.

    Staff the stations with extra people to answer phones, and make the switch already!
     
  16. Jan 10, 2009 #76 of 269
    HIPAR

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    I my (selfish) case they can forget about the DTV transition forever. I can receive poor but usually 'watchable' analog from Philadelphia and New York on VHF.. no UHF here. When they finally do the conversion, I expect to be wrecked at the base of the 'digital cliff' with no over the air TV.. 'disenfranchised' .. tyranny of the stupid ....

    Oh, I have equipment but no signals

    --- CHAS
     
  17. Jan 10, 2009 #77 of 269
    FTA Michael

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    I'm back from CES with no particular insight from there, but here's my guess. I think that this is purely a CYA move. Obama waves this red flag a little, but nothing, especially the date, actually changes. Then when some amount (small but overblown? larger than expected?) of stuff hits the fan on the transition date, the new president can point out that he warned everyone that it was going to happen.

    Just relax, sit back, and watch the political show. It'll all work out.
     
  18. Jan 10, 2009 #78 of 269
    Stewart Vernon

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    Not switching off analog is problematic for at least a couple of reasons. Some stations are pulling double-duty so it is additional equipment to continue to maintain. They'd much rather be maintaining one set of stuff. Other stations haven't actually gone digital yet (except for testing) and are waiting to throw the switch so for them it is either-or because they couldn't afford to maintain two sets of stuff in the interim.

    Additionally, some stations are set to go back to their analog frequency after the switch and other digitial stations get their "old" temporary digital frequency. It creates a cascade effect in many markets where they all have to shift or none can... so the burden of one station can become the burden of others.

    Additionally, some channels aren't at full power on their digital channel because of their analog channel and FCC restrictions. So some customers will not get their digital yet until analog goes dark and the digital power can increase. So they may or may not even be getting analog but can't know if they will get digital until after the switch.

    Ultimately, when they draw a line in the sand like this they need to just leave it there and go with it. If the only "real" problem is the coupon business, then that should be a non-factor in my opinion.
     
  19. Jan 10, 2009 #79 of 269
    James Long

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    Changing the date is a regulatory nightmare. Even the "nightlight" service is going to cost the government a lot of money to manage. We are in the last 90 days of analog where stations can discontinue without permission ... all they have to do is notify. Many stations have done so. The end is here.

    Too many questions about what changing the date actually means ... is continuing analog permissive or a mandate? Will it be an extended "nightlight" service that lasts longer and allows regular programming? Will it prevent planned digital conversions? How can it be done in a way that is fair to all stations?

    Extension is too cumbersome ... expect more money for coupons and not much else. A "second chance" program for re-issuing expiring coupons and a loan/funding increase to allow coupons to be issued before transition would be a good action. But no more changes to February 17th please.
     
  20. Jan 10, 2009 #80 of 269
    ercjncprdtv

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    Love it...thanks!:lol:
     
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