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Fifty Caliber's Proposed Channel Shuffle and Suggested New Programing Tiers (Renamed)

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by Fifty Caliber, Mar 3, 2006.

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  1. Mar 3, 2006 #1 of 59
    Fifty Caliber

    Fifty Caliber Banned User

    Jan 4, 2006
    Several DBS-Talk members have said that I should come up with a proposal for a channel shuffle to correct some perceived unfairness in the current tiering structure. I will be further refining this proposal with input from other DBS-Talk members before I submit it to E*.

    Currently Dish Network Programing is offered in four different tiered tracks,
    1- The Chinese track which has only one tier, Great Wall.
    2- The Spanish or Latino track which has five tiers, Dish Latino, Dish Latino Plus, Dish Latino Dos, Dish Latino Max, and Dish Latino Everything
    3- The America's SD track which includes six tiers, America's Family Basic, America's Top 60, America's Top 60 Plus, America's Top 120, America's Top 180, and America's Everything Package.
    4- The "Metal" or America's HD track which includes four tiers, Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Platinum

    Dish Network recently added a new add-on option called Dish Latino Bonus. This add-on option was created in response to grumblings from Spanish speaking viewers about the duplication of channels between Dish Latinos and the various America's and Metal tiers. This add-on esentially adds all of the Spanish language channels to any of the metal tiers or the AT-60 or higher America's tiers. IMHO, this add-on package is a fair resolution to certain inequities in the tiering structure.

    Currently there is a sizable inequity in the America's tiering structure. The entry level tier, America's Family Basic tier contains channels that are not included in some of the higher America's tiers (and in one case not in any other America's tier). There have been alot of grumblings about this perceived unfairness. After much review of the content of the various America's packages, I have come up with a proposed shuffle of channels within the America's tiers.

    I have placed the following conditions on my proposal,
    - For each channel moved to a lower programing tier, another channel should be moved up from the lower tier to the higher tier to offset.
    - Offsetting channels should be of the same catagory, i.e. news, sports, movies, et cetera.
    - No channel should be moved up more than one tier, so if a channel needs to be dropped two tiers, then two different channels should be moved up one tier to offset.
    - For the purposes of this discusion, AT-60 and AT-60+ will be considered the same tier.
    - New channels should be added to AT-180 first and then moved with offsetting moves, if needed.
    - At this time, no consideration will be made to the various Latino tiers.

    Channels are listed in their EPG abreviations
    Drops Offsetting moves
    FXNWS 120 > 60 CNBC 60 > 120
    BITV 180 > 120 MSNBC 120 > 180
    SCIEN 180 > 120 G4 120 > 180
    DTIME 180 > 120 DHLTH 120 > 180
    ANIML 120 > 60 TLC 60 > 120
    DKIDS 180 > 120 PAX 120 > 180
    NICKT 180 > 120 TDIS 120 > 180
    NICKG 180 > 120 GAME 120 > 180
    BOOM 180 > 120 NOG/N 120 > 180
    GAC 180 > 120 FUSE 120 > 180
    OTDCH 180 > 120 SPEED 120 > 180
    CSTV 120 > 60 TNT 60 > 120
    BIOGR 180 > 120 SOAP 120 > 180
    DIY 180 > 120 FX 120 > 180

    Add HMC to AT-180
    HMC 180 > 120 IFC 120 > 180

    I realize that this proposed solution is not perfect, as it does not result in all of the channels in the America's Family Basic tier being included in the AT-60 tier. I does however get them all into the AT-120 tier. Perhaps further shuffling could be proposed.
  2. Mar 3, 2006 #2 of 59

    Geronimo Native American Potentate DBSTalk Gold Club

    Mar 23, 2002
    I would suppose that E*'s initial response will be that the Family pack is not in any way related to the AT xx packages, that it is simply an alternative package available to subscribers.

    I think that that is unusual that it contains some of the channels it contains but I am not sure how this is "unfair' to us as subs. I would guess too that folks would grouse about the channels they lose in all this but not care so much about what they gain. But maybe I am too cynical about human nature.

    Good luck with it though.
  3. Mar 3, 2006 #3 of 59

    grooves12 Godfather

    Oct 27, 2005
    You know... in EVERY one of those instances I prefer the channel in the lower tier and moving them up would be a negative to me. I think Dish is better at this than you are. :)
  4. Mar 3, 2006 #4 of 59
    juan ellitinez

    juan ellitinez Icon/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    Jan 31, 2003
    Speed has nascar good luck
  5. Mar 3, 2006 #5 of 59
    Chris Freeland

    Chris Freeland Hall Of Fame

    Mar 23, 2002
    I agree with Geronimo, "Dish Family" is a 5 th track and not part of the AT track, it just shares some channels from that track. Buy the way just for the record Fifty Caliber, the Family pack is called "Dish Family" and not "America's Family Basic", go to E* website and you will see that I am correct. :)
  6. Mar 3, 2006 #6 of 59

    Freckles AllStar

    Jun 12, 2005
    One of the reasons I was ready to leave D* was that my program package had "expired," therefore, even if lower and current tier programming should have been available to me, I couldn't receive it unless I signed up for another package. In other words, I was in one of their "Choice" packs with HBO, Cinemax, and Starz but the premium movie pack was a special offer and, while I was grandfathered in, the package was no longer offered. Therefore, I couldn't receive any of the new programming or channels that were added.

    I liked the fact that America's Top 180, for instance, included everything in the lower package plus additional channels. I subscribe to AEP and think it should be just that. I realize my HD receiver will become outdated and I cannot receive new MPEG4 programming until I upgrade, but all SD content should be added. I don't mind E* offering a Family Pack so viewers can get the programming appropriate for their household, but I do believe all the more expensive tiers should include all the channels available in the less expensive tiers.

    All the rules about migrating channels up and down the tiers, etc is a bit confusing to me. If a lower priced tier receives a channel, I think all the more expensive ones should also receive the channel. Think of it as a Channel Pyramid :) . That seems fair to me.

    I noticed the Latino paks seem to run about $5 less than the others, but don't know anything about their packages or tiers.

    Good luck with your project. One thing for sure, you can never please all the people all the time and you can never please some people.
  7. Mar 3, 2006 #7 of 59

    tsmacro Hall Of Fame

    Apr 28, 2005

    Ok i'm thinkin'.......too much time on your hands there!:lol:
  8. Mar 3, 2006 #8 of 59

    scottchez Icon

    Feb 4, 2003
    Do it by Category

    Sports in together, Superstations TBS WGN FX all together ect.

    Move the HD channels to a NON 4 digit number like Direct TV
  9. Mar 4, 2006 #9 of 59
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    Apr 17, 2003
    Don't forget that tier placement and channel number placement is all subject to the contracts that E* has with the providers. There are some channels that I believe should be in a lower package --- and E* has made a few moves in that direction. They generally don't move channels the opposite direction (LMN being an exception due to the contract dispute and Oxygen arriving as a replacement at AT120).

    An a la carte scheme where one could pull down channels from a higher tier (such as Bloomberg) would be interesting.
  10. BFG

    BFG Hall Of Fame

    Jan 23, 2004
    Thanks for the good laugh. :lol:
  11. Fifty Caliber

    Fifty Caliber Banned User

    Jan 4, 2006
    Seeing as how E* has made a recent round of price increases, maybe they should in fairness make two or three of my proposed drops without an offset. Or in the case of a drop from 180 to 60, only have one offsetting raise.
  12. jessshaun

    jessshaun Legend

    Sep 13, 2005
    Actually, I thought that they already did say that. And it's not unfair at all. Why is Dish Family always compared to the AT packages? It is NOT a AT package. It's a different kind of package. Dish themselves said that. Some people will just never get it.
  13. Fifty Caliber

    Fifty Caliber Banned User

    Jan 4, 2006
  14. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    Apr 17, 2003
    The connection between new channels and higher prices is coincidental at best ... while "increased provider costs" will always be stated as a reason for an increase don't try to match dollar for channel what 'offsets' the increases.
    More like "Here we see E* listing their basic programming packages." No comparison, just a price list.
  15. the_bear

    the_bear Godfather

    Oct 18, 2004
    The family pack seems like a good way to get more HD and still allow a lease. I assume I can subscribe to the family pack + all HD programming and still use lease equipment? Currently, if a customer does HD only, they cannot do a leased receivers.
  16. BFG

    BFG Hall Of Fame

    Jan 23, 2004

    In order to leaseHD equipment you must have at least HD Bronze.
  17. John W

    John W Icon

    Dec 19, 2005
    I'll get it when they rename my package the "All Not-Everything Package".
  18. Geronimo

    Geronimo Native American Potentate DBSTalk Gold Club

    Mar 23, 2002

    the link you provided makes no mention of anything called "America's Family Basic." Instead it provides pricing information for several packages including "DishFamily Pak. Instead of supporting your argument that the package is part of the AT xxx famiy it actually support the opposite notion---that it is a separate package with no connection the the AT xxx family of packages.
  19. Michael P

    Michael P Hall Of Fame

    Oct 27, 2004
    Anyone else notice the AT-60 Plus included locals. What happens to someone in a DMA not carried who wants their RSN (preuming such a situation exists where an area has an RSN but no locals on the satellite).

    I'm willing to be th that E* is moving ever closer to "cable on a stick" by trying to "include" locals. I don't want to pay for my locals becuase I get a great signal OTA, actually a better picture than satellite delivered LIL's because the OTA signals are uncompressed.
  20. Chris Freeland

    Chris Freeland Hall Of Fame

    Mar 23, 2002
    If I am not mistaken you can get AT60 Plus without locals once again for $34.99/mo. E* maid this locals requirement for AT60 Plus last year and for Lease customers with all packages, but they changed that requirement this year even for AT60 Plus, locals are now optional no matter what now. The last time I checked the E* website was a little confusing on this subject though.
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