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FIOS or DirecTV

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by fyton2v, Jul 26, 2007.

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  1. Reggie3

    Reggie3 DBSTalk Club Member

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    And I thought I read somewhere recently that they have new software they will be using that should double the bandwidth - could be wrong as I've killed lots of braincells with my lifestyle :)
     
  2. jpl

    jpl Hall Of Fame

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    Yeah, I knew that they were using all 850 MHz for tv service (although I thought it was 860MHz). As for future expansion, they've already advertized how they plan on going about it - IPTV. They're planning on moving everything to feed through the router. The connections from the router to the TV coax will, ostensibly, be the same, but instead of getting a feed directly to your TVs, everything will go through your router via the IP feed. That's probably quite a few years away, and even with the 850MHz, they have more than enough capacity to expand for the foreseeable future.

    They carry very few channels in analog today, and that's going to change in the near future - they agreed, as per an agreement with the FCC, to get rid of all their analog channels by Feb. 2009. The FCC has new requirements that went into effect on July 1st, mandating changes to cable STBs. They basically wanted to decouple security from the hardware of the box, allowing you to get a third-party box with a cable-card from the provider. The FCC is more sympathetic to new players in the cable arena - especially smaller outfits, so they've been willing to grant waivers to such companies (and at 500,000 TV subscribers, with a network that's only a few years old, Verizon definitely qualifies as a smaller cable outfit). In exchange, however, these outfits have agreed to eliminate all their analog channels by Feb. 2009. Verizon has already announced prices for a Digital Adapter - I believe that's what this is for - to allow the current analog only customers (the ones who just want the real basic local channels) to be able to continue to get those channels after this cut-off.

    This limited number of analogs just gives them even more room to play with.
     
  3. jpl

    jpl Hall Of Fame

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    Hadn't heard that. But I'm not sure how that helps expand the current set-up, since the fiber is converted to copper when it gets to your house - phone, internet, and cable. The cable feed is the bottle-neck for TV service - so the way things are currently set up they'll need to funnel down the video feed to 850 MHz anyway. I think they will start migrating more and more stuff to IP, though, which WILL free up bandwidth for tv service.
     
  4. Chuck W

    Chuck W Icon

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    And clearly, neither should you...

    Taken from here...

    http://www.stateofthenewsmedia.org/2007/narrative_localtv_publicattitudes.asp?cat=7&media=7

     
  5. convem24

    convem24 Icon

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    The key is where it is available. I have never lived in a Verizon area so D* is the best product for me. All that a customers needs is south line of sight (I know that is not 100%) and to you 2.5% having passion for sports, it is much higher for D* customers, if the number bear out 16 million subs and 2 million NFL sunday ticket subs makes it about 12.5% for hardcore sports fans which is pretty good. Sports Fans are also very profitable. D* really makes a fair amount of profit on those customers. Again there are multiple factors and besides you mention bandwidth and channels, have you done a channel count for D*? D* have 10 satellites with roughly over 1000 channels on system (they have to broadcast a lot of LIL channels). So again you can argue both ways, D* does a lot to offer consumers. D* grows at roughly 1 million new net subs a year, FIOS is only at 500,000 subs right now. To be honest I think FIOS is going to hurt cable a lot more than D* or E*. :D
     
  6. HDTVFanAtic

    HDTVFanAtic Banned User

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    Jul 23, 2005

    Again, 25% of the general population care about sports.

    The local teams are generally on TV - at better quality than the 1280x1080i Directv gives you.

    If you want to talk about people that care about out of market teams - you would need an electron microscope to find those numbers.

    So again, for 99.33% of America (USA Population minus your 2 Million ST subs), FIOS would work just fine and give a better picture.

    If you are part of the 0.66%, so be it, maybe D* is for you.
     
  7. HDTVFanAtic

    HDTVFanAtic Banned User

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    Clearly (the word you use) you have trouble reading as well. Would you care to highlight what I said that is contradicted in that Pew Study? Weather has always been a big factor which is why people have invested so heavily in Weather Radar as well as Vipir and WSI's Titan.

    Weather is used to get the people to the 2nd quarter hour for ratings - sports is the throw away at the end.

    As I said, don't embarrass yourself by being a contestant on "The Power of 10"
     
  8. Chuck W

    Chuck W Icon

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    Oh boy, nice flipflop there. First, you tell me I don't have a clue about what people think, when I say they do the same with weather, now you agree with me.

    :confused:
     
  9. HDTVFanAtic

    HDTVFanAtic Banned User

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    You clearly are confused.

    I'll say it again so you can re-read it again - as "clearly" you cannot comphrend it.

    LESS THAN 25% OF THE GENERAL POPULATION CARE ABOUT SPORTS.

    THAT'S WHY ITS AT THE END OF THE NEWSCASTS. IN THE LAST 10 YEARS MORE AND MORE HAVE SAID THEY DO NOT EXPECT SPORTS INFORMATION FROM THEIR LOCAL NEWSCASTS AND INSTEAD, TURN TO ESPN AND RSN - AND THUS ITS GETTING LESS AND LESS TIME ON LOCAL NEWSCASTS. ESPN REPORTS BARELY DOUBLE DIGITS TUNE TO IT. YOU DO THE MATH.

    IF YOU COUNT PEOPLE THAT CARE ABOUT OUT OF MARKET TEAMS, YOU NEED AN ELECTRON MICROSCOPE TO FIND THE NUMBERS.

    I NEVER SAID THEY DIDN'T CARE ABOUT WEATHER AS IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN TOP PRIORITY IN EVERY MAGID NEWS STUDY DONE.

    Again, for all the above reasons, including the fact that ESPN is full bitrate on FIOS, FIOS has the sports that 99.3% of the population wants in better quality then Directv.

    Get it yet?

    And if you look at the numbers released this morning, around 7.5 million are using FIOS for internet - just wait for the franchise licenses to go through and see people switch to FIOS TV in a heartbeat. In fact, in this market, if you are in a FIOS area, they will not even put a copper wire to your house for phones any longer - FIOS is all they will install. FIOS TV subs are about to go into hyper drive.
     
  10. Chuck W

    Chuck W Icon

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    First off, it wasn't me referencing out of market teams, so get that outta here(and you think I'M confused).

    Second, I do not believe that LOCAL sports is a throw away in MANY areas. It may be in some areas, but not in others. Not even close, especially those heavily (crazed?) into the local HS sports scenes(to this point, it doesn't even matter whether they like sports, because it's more about local pride, than liking sports).

    A random national survey of how many people like sports, it not a good indicator. You need much more locally specific surveys, to really be relevant.

    As for the ESPN's %11, people, these days seem to resent ESPN(at least most I talk to and read about), in general, so it would stand to reason, their viewership is down. People have moved to those RSNs and even FSN national.

    And three, DON'T YELL(aka CAPS ON)! This is a discussion.

    I cannot talk much about FIOS, because I don't have it, nor will I ever(unless Verizon buys AT&T), and that's the kicker. You have to be in a FIOS market, which MANY people are not(are you gonna refute that too?), in order to be able to receive it. Whether or not it's better is irrelevant, because it's just not an option for many people.
     
  11. jpl

    jpl Hall Of Fame

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    I'm always amazed when threads take on a life of their own. I can attest that I'm guilty of pushing threads down tangents as much as anyone (heck, I've probably done more than my fair share). What the discussions of how many people are sports fans has to do with how the fios dvr stacks up to the HR20 is beyond me.

    In my opinion both fios and directv are great services. Like all such services, they both have their pluses and minuses. I tend to go on at length about comparing the two services because I did that very thing when I thought about switching. I agonized over the decision because I really loved my directv service, but had to own up that, for me, it was time for a change.

    Is fios for everyone? Of course not. Even in areas where it's available you'll find lots of folks who would never consider leaving directv - the number of 5 lnb dishes that have gone up in my neighborhood alone is testament to that. It all comes down to what's important to you and what kind of service most appeals to you. And while my posts have been pretty long (I apologize for that - I have a tendency to channel Stephen King at times - minus all that creepy stuff happening in Maine that is), it's just because of the thought process I went through to make the decision I did. Even given that, though, there are other areas that I've not touched on. I'll leave it like this - with an open invitation. If anyone is seriously considering fios and you're interested in a more detailed comparison, just IM me. I'd be more than happy to provide the full pros and cons of each service, as I see them.
     
  12. convem24

    convem24 Icon

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    Chuck I totally agree with you! A national survey or local viewing habits is asking an eskimo (I have eskimos but I could not think of another analogy) if he wants to buy ice. Certain area of country have far fewer local viewership than others. It all depends. My thing about sports products and viewing products in general is it needs to be interesting and thought provoking. Local channels don't do it for me. You do make an interesting comment on FIOS and customers. Their foot print like cable is limited. With DBS you have a much more open foot print. My parents have FIOS internet and D* bundled. They like the deal they got and with 3 DVRs at home the equivilent cost under FIOS is far too expensive compared to D* or even E*. They save about $23 a month on DVR fees. Qwest one of the other major telcos is focusing on the strength in D*'s video product over using their own. They think it is cheaper to do so and easier to market products since people have heard of D*. Just my two cents.
     
  13. jpl

    jpl Hall Of Fame

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    Not to artificially keep this thread alive, but I'm getting information from folks who've been upgraded to the new fios IMG s/w. They initially offered up the s/w to select folks who agreed to do evaluations of it. So much of the info that I'd gotten until now came from one such candidate - and only after the eval period was over. Anyway, verizon appears to have made updates to the s/w based on feedback during the evaluation, because there are apparently some changes from the version that that one guy evaluated. Verizon started the roll-out last week, and people in that one market have been providing their own feedback, which is similar to, but not identical to the info provided by the one person asked to evaluate it.

    From what I'm hearing the new s/w has enabled a feature in their DVR that's probably requested more than any other - DLB! Ok, now I'm really excited about getting the new s/w (unfortunately I have to wait close to a month). I knew that the hardware could support it - Comcast has it in their moto dvr, which is a slightly different version of the DVR that Verizon uses. I just found this out, so I figured I'd add it to the mix - especially since the whole purpose of this thread was to compare the two DVRs.

    Edit - actually, reading further, it appears to be hit or miss if it works. One guy has it working on one dvr but not a second one.
     
  14. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Except for the fact that he's not just stating he's getting what he wants. He's stating that the PQ is so much clearer on FiOS that anyone (in a FiOS area) that chooses D* over FiOS is wrong.

    1. I've said FiOS is a bit better. But it's not that much better. On the vast majority of programs it's not even noticeable.
    2. I haven't missed a recording in 5 years with my D*Tivo's. From everything I've read (and I've read a lot over the last 9 months since I've been following FiOS), the HR20 is MUCH better than what FiOS provides.
    3. If you would have read my earlier posts, you'd see that I need capacity. I currently have 2 D*Tivo's each with a SD capacity of well over 200 hours (500+ combined capacity). With the capacity of the new Tivo's, I'd have to get 2 (possibly 3) and I'd have to get the original units, not the new $299 non-expandable small HD units. Those are $600 and I'd have to get 2 of them. I don't feel like paying over $1200 plus the monthly Tivo fees for 2 units in order to get FiOS.

    So you see, FiOS isn't ideal for everyone. It has nothing to do with your finding things "comical" that people would choose a provider because of the DVR. The PQ is close enough (IMO and others) that it comes down to other factors. The DVR is a big factor. We've had nearly flawless DVR's for 8 years now, we don't want to take a step back (at least not that huge of a step back). That's a big factor. For me and for many.

    You're happy with your FiOS, good for you. Don't try and ridicule or belittle others because they don't make the same choices as you and don't use the same criteria that you use.

    That being said, as I mentioned earlier, I'm under no commitment with D* and may still decide to go with FiOS in the next several months, but only if they improve their DVR and obtain discreet IR codes (I suppose you'd think I should just walk up to each DVR in the rack and put my hand over the "eye" of the one I'm not using every time I use the remote, because the PQ is so much better).


    If it's not clear to you yet that your standards are not the same as everyone else's than I can't help you anymore.
     
  15. HDTVFanAtic

    HDTVFanAtic Banned User

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    Population of USA is 300 Million. SNF and MNF has audience of 12-15 Million INCLUDING the local markets for the teams. Do the math - 5% or less.

    Why you think that less than 25% care about Sports because of you just feel that way - there are NO NUMBERS to support your position.

    Again, those that care about out of town teams are, for the 3rd time, you need an electron microscope to find - as its microscopic in every LOCAL piece of Magid Televsion studies for 25 years.
     
  16. HDTVFanAtic

    HDTVFanAtic Banned User

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    Incorrect - I have said its 1) Cheaper 2) Much better Quality and 3) Fulfills the requirements for 99.33% of the population. There are 0.66% that it will not fulfill the needs for.


    And that is where you are wrong - dead wrong. I can put the same channel on both and switch between - to a group that knows nothing about the 2 services or which they are viewing at the time - 100% say FIOS.

    And 55% on engadet say the HR20 isnt ready for PrimeTime.

    I get HD for the quality of the picture - if you think the HR20 is perfect, go read the CE threads.

    If a DVR is make or break it for you, then get a Tivo.

    Release 9 of the TIVO software now in the hands of the beta testers allow you to move programs between TIVOs (in different rooms for example) and also to your PC via ethernet.

    But again, there are other ways, less expensive than TIVO, that give me and others unlimited storage.

    and you probably choose your car model because of the color:rolleyes:

    Clearly your TV cannot do proper resolution.

    If you want to try and convince us the HR20 has been flawless, dream on.

    If you are in the 0.66%, good for you.

    lots of luck with your choices. Perhaps you chose your wife because of her hair color as well :nono2:
     
  17. Chuck W

    Chuck W Icon

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    Ok, first off, why do you continue to bring up out of town teams? Once again, I have YET to make any commment about out of town teams.

    My one and only comment I have made, so far, to you, is that I do not believe, for many areas, that sports news is a throw away(and why you say it's at the end of a broadcast). It may be, in some areas, but no where near, across the board, because not everyone is only concerned with their PRO sports teams. How many people that watch MNF and SNF or a generic national sampling % of who likes sports, has little relevance, in many areas, as to how many people what their local sports report and why they watch it.

    I see it, first hand, when I travel, especially to my in-laws. They routinely have network programming pre-empted for local High School games(this is why they got Primestar, in the first place, years ago, so they could get other networks, that don't pre-empt) and their newscast is LED with local sports highlight blurbs, to keep people hanging, till the sports report, later(almost last) in the program.

    Since this is getting off the topic at hand(FIOS vs Directv), I'm leaving at this. We can agree to disagree.
     
  18. msmith198025

    msmith198025 Member of the Year

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    Umm if its ONLY 25 % of people that actually like sports then why is the Superbowl, Bowl games, World series, ect some of the most watched programs. And look at the stands of any major college on a saturday in the fall. Packed!
    Seems like a low estimate.
     
  19. MikeR7

    MikeR7 Icon

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    I think you can argue with him till your blue in the face and it won't make any effect on his narrow minded agenda. I think a more relevant statistic would be how many HD TV owners are sports fans. I would hazard a guess that a great majority of people who buy HD TV's and then programming for them do it for the sports programming.
     
  20. idlehands

    idlehands AllStar

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    Directv and Dishnet are both garbage and Fios is way better in terms of pic quality. If you are looking for thousands of channels, then yes, Dtv or DN would be better. Personcally I cannot stand the quality of the channels on either sat systems. It pisses me off FIOS isn't available to me. Some people here have said even where FIOS is availabe people still choose directv over it... Well I'll tell you two reasons why people choose sat over FIOS when given the option--1. because most people are idiots and they don't know anything about picture quality and are happy with any crap they're given. 2. because they can get a bunch of receivers and spread it out wherever they want to cut down on costs.
     
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