First Ground Up Driverless Vehicle To Be On Road in 2015

Discussion in 'Tech Talk - Gadgets, Gizmos and Technology' started by Drucifer, Dec 23, 2014.

  1. Oct 15, 2015 #21 of 663
    dpeters11

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    I think more of KITT, that's the car I want. I actually went into a Tesla showroom showroom when I got in, I made a comment that it looked like Darth Vader's bathroom, the sales guy didn't pick up on the reference.

    I want KITT, maybe without the weapons, but to your point, I definitely don't want KARR.

    The problem seen in some of these cars is a general lack of thinking of security and firewalls. Fairly basic stuff. I think Tesla is doing it better than most. And the fact that they can update the software Wirelessly is huge. I am assuming that they have the checks and balances to prevent rogue updates.

    Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk
     
  2. Oct 15, 2015 #22 of 663
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    I hadn't heard about the push for same laws everywhere. What I want to know is what laws he's talking about. I need examples! Because I don't think they are at all different really state to state for the major things. But even small towns have to have different laws because of unique things in their area.

    For example all peacocks have the right away in Arcadia California. If you're in a car you must yield to them. I seriously doubt this is something thats even listed on anybody else's radar. And there's a reason for that.

    If you have a link showing examples of what this guy was talking about I would love to see it thanks!
     
  3. Oct 15, 2015 #23 of 663
    phrelin

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    I wish I did. His news release on the speech quoted in the article is short on details and long on polemics. I did another search and this subject came up right under news article results for Volkswagon....
     
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  4. Oct 15, 2015 #24 of 663
    dpeters11

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    Some states allow turning left on red, sometimes it has to be from a one way to a one way, others allow it from a two way to a one way. Some places it's banned altogether. That might be one example, but honestly, it (at least in Ohio) comes up so infrequently that you probably can just put in the logic to never turn left on red and be fine.
     
  5. Oct 15, 2015 #25 of 663
    Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    The news release that Phrelin posted mentions the certification process. Imagine 50 different requirements to be certified.

    The other area that comes to mind is liability. Right now each state sets the minimum liability requirements.

    Peace,
    Tom
     
  6. Oct 15, 2015 #26 of 663
    Drucifer

    Drucifer Well-Known Member

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    NY Hudson...
    Where's Knight?
     
  7. Oct 15, 2015 #27 of 663
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Somehow my GPS knows the speed limits on most roads and has been programmed with intersections where turns are permitted (or not). While I have seen worse GPSs, I suspect that the car would have a better chance than I would to know the laws of all 50 states.

    There are a lot of variables to program - but I am more concerned that the car would stop for a pedestrian in a crosswalk when and only when needed (are they in the crosswalk, waiting to cross behind the car or waiting for a bus?).

    Autopilot cars remind me of my favorite Star Trek technology - one I have not seen mastered. Doors. Yes, we have automatic doors that open when one steps on a mat or (more common today) detects motion but they are far from perfect. The Star Trek doors recognized who was there and seemed to know where people were going and what doors needed opened. Consider the algorithm needed to open a door when a person wants to pass through it but not when a person wants to walk by or stand outside of the door. The automation must know intent.

    Imagine a situation where a person comes to visit, they walk up to the door and it does not open (it is polite to knock or ring the bell - or perhaps the automation detects that the visitor wants to alert the person in the room and rings the bell). The person in the room walks up to the door ... what happens? Does the door open so the person in the room can greet the guest? Or does it remain shut until the system determines (somehow) that the person in the room wants to open the door. Does the bell announce who the visitor is? "Sam is at the door." Does the system know the relationships and take that into account when deciding to open the door?

    Scenario: Sam comes to visit Sally. They are friends but the system determines not to open the door for Sam. It alerts Sally that Sam is at the door. Sally steps out of the shower and walks over to the door to let Sam know that it will be a few minutes. Does the system open the door since Sally approached it? How does the system know Sally's intent? A ton of data and a good guess? And while Sally may be embarrassed if the door technology misfires and she is revealed naked in front of Sam too early in the relationship, if we can't get doors right can we get cars right?
     
  8. Oct 16, 2015 #28 of 663
    phrelin

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    :righton:
     
  9. Oct 16, 2015 #29 of 663
    Stewart Vernon

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    When I get into a taxi, or a bus, if that vehicle gets into an accident I'm not liable. I'm paying/hiring the ride but the driver (and his employer) are liable for any accidents. Before I would even set foot inside an "autonomous" car that same standard would have to be met. If I'm not in control of the vehicle operation, then I'm not going to be liable.

    After that... I find it ironic that the safety is touted because of taking away "human error" except humans are designing and programming it... and making it OR at least making the things that make the car... so what are the plans to eliminate "human error" there? At least human error in the vehicle operation is a dynamic thing where you have a chance to correct on the fly... there will be no on-the-fly correction for a manufacturing or programming error.

    I'm not afraid of technology... but it isn't flawless either.
     
  10. Oct 16, 2015 #30 of 663
    yosoyellobo

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    This remains me of an argument I use to have with my boss about the use of a life jacket on a boat. I use to say that on a small boat I would prefer to always wear one all the time and he would not wear one at all because he knew of a case were someone die because the life jacket he was wearing got tangle up with something and he when down the ship. If a life jacket could save my life I would use it. Same with a self driving car. Either way stuff happens.
     
  11. Oct 16, 2015 #31 of 663
    Tom Robertson

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    Perhaps the difference is the timing and frequency of the human error. When a human is in control, he/she is constantly subjected to choices, situations, inputs, etc. The computer systems have already tested and simulated against all those situations and inputs, and already have tested the most correct choices. The human error in the computer systems relate to the testing and simulation. After a couple million miles, most of those human errors have been driven out.

    Remember--the cars we drive today are designed by humans. There are human errors in them. Yet most of us drive them anyway. :)

    Peace,
    Tom
     
  12. Oct 16, 2015 #32 of 663
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    There will still be humans on the road making errors that the computer will have to predict and avoid. Every time I have seen a "fool proof" computer humanity seems to come up with a more robust fool. I expect a lot of timid driving from the driverless cars.

    One thing no one wants to see from their car: [​IMG]
     
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  13. Oct 16, 2015 #33 of 663
    Drucifer

    Drucifer Well-Known Member

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    NY Hudson...
    While it might not be flawless, it's current driving ability is how much better than a human?

    The Cali vehicle got into about 10 accidents, all the fault of the other vehicle being driven by a human.

    So while it ain't flawless, I'll take a road full of computer driven vehicles over the human alternative anytime.

    Why? Because I will feel a million times safer.
     
  14. Oct 17, 2015 #34 of 663
    Drucifer

    Drucifer Well-Known Member

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    NY Hudson...
    There was a recent study I saw that stated the safer the roads are constructed, the more reckless we seem to drive on them.
     
  15. Oct 17, 2015 #35 of 663
    Christopher Gould

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    What happens when the computer is given two choices to avoid an accident. One way possibly kills you or possibly kills someone else. What does it do?
     
  16. Oct 17, 2015 #36 of 663
    yosoyellobo

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    The army is working on that one.
     
  17. Oct 17, 2015 #37 of 663
    Tom Robertson

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    Doesn't sound like choices to "avoid an accident."

    From the videos I've seen by Google, they anticipate behaviors and events earlier than humans can even see them. And tracks more items, with greater accuracy.

    Peace,
    Tom
     
  18. Oct 17, 2015 #38 of 663
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Sophie's choice.
     
  19. Oct 18, 2015 #39 of 663
    phrelin

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    All computers and all cars are designed by humans, at least in the context we're discussing them. What I'm concerned about are the simple things - what happens when a skunk sprays the sensor surface just after the car avoids hitting it? I don't drive day in and day out on freeways - I drive on country and town roads, some of them gravel and dirt. I simply don't believe they are anywhere near close enough to turn an "autonomous" car loose on our local roads and I'm not sure they will ever be.
     
  20. Oct 18, 2015 #40 of 663
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Perhaps... but if there is a flaw, the computer will not be able to correct for that flaw when it comes up and I would be helpless as well. Meanwhile, when I as a human driver in control of the car encounter something new, I have a chance to improvise. And perhaps as important, if I'm going to be held responsible I want control of the vehicle. IF the company making the car takes all responsibility, then we can talk about the other stuff.

    I dunno. I've been driving for nearly 30 years now. In all that time I've been part of 4 accidents. Three of those I was rear-ended at a stop light. Literally no way for me to avoid those! The other accident was a no-fault accident where I was crossing an intersection and someone suddenly decided to pass around the car that had stopped to wave me across. So while I could have avoided that one by just waiting longer to cross, the accident itself was an unexpected change in the situation once I had committed to crossing the road.

    So, worst case, 1 accident in 30 years was partially my fault... and only 3 others... That seems way better to me than those autonomous cars, so I'll take my driving experience over theirs!
     

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