First Ground Up Driverless Vehicle To Be On Road in 2015

Discussion in 'Tech Talk - Gadgets, Gizmos and Technology' started by Drucifer, Dec 23, 2014.

  1. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    My rebuke of Tesla is that the feature was able to be engaged.

    I believe they should have withdrawn the feature completely when they discovered people abusing the feature.
     
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  2. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

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    I'll be interested in your experiences with AP. I've read where with the fatal accident, the car was going very fast (around 100 mph) by a driver who said she was doing 85 and the Tesla passed her. But I've also read that if AP is engaged, it is limited to going only 5 mph over the posted speed limit. The truck driver (who is a very biased witness as far as I'm concerned) also said the car was going very fast.
     
  3. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

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    You also make it sound like listening to an audio book was a distraction. Are you advocating disabling all radios in cars?
     
  4. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    With this opinion, we'd still be driving horse-drawn buggies.

    Again, remove seat belts, some people don't use them.
     
  5. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Why must all comments become arguments of the extremes?

    In my opinion, the driver was bored. His car was driving for him and he didn't need to pay attention. So he sought out other options. An audio book caught on tape in the earlier incident. (Which would have easily been prevented by an engaged driver - there was not an overwhelming amount of traffic and the only reason why the car had to take evasive action was because the driver wasn't paying attention.) A DVD player was found in the fatal wreck

    Being bored while driving is a sign that one needs to be more engaged, not more distracted.

    As long as one's attention remains on the road and is not distracted by the radio it does no harm. But if one is distracted while driving it is time to turn off everything extraneous and think about what one is doing - driving.

    Great ... more insults. Just when I thought the thread was rational again.
    Oh well. When you're ready for rational discussion I'll be here.
     
  6. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    Eye witnesses are very bad in their estimates.

    You can set the AP or the cruise control to any level over the posted. There is a default that you can set +5 or whatever over the posted. I think AP is limited to 90 max. But it also reminds you to keep your hands on the wheel and will stop if you don't. (Today's announcement from Tesla on the Penn. accident)

    Trust me, If I'm doing 90, I'm watching! This is a silly thread / argument. While it was one fatality and unfortunate, how many people died that one day in auto accidents? How many miles were driven that day by AP?
     
  7. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    One too many.

    BTW: Where was the "Penn." accident? The fatal crash I have been discussing occurred May 7 when Joshua Brown of Canton, Ohio, hit the side of a tractor trailer on U.S. Route-27 in Williston, Fla.

    EDIT: Oh, the next accident!

    Driver Albert Scaglione had reportedly told police that he activated the automated system before the July 1 rollover accident on the turnpike in Bedford County.

    A Tesla representive told CNN Money that the autopilot system disengaged because the driver's hands weren't on the wheel. The driver was instructed to retake the wheel and did so 11 seconds before the crash, according to the company.

    "Over 10 seconds and approximately 300m later and while under manual steering control, the driver drifted out of the lane, collided with a barrier, overcorrected, crossed both lanes of the highway, struck a median barrier, and rolled the vehicle," Tesla told CNN.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/real-time/Tesla-Autopilot-was-off-in-Pa-Turnpike-crash.html
     
  8. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    Honestly, James, I don't get it. You admittedly call the driver bored and that he didn't need to pay attention. You completely shirk his responsibility as a driver and blame it on AP.

    I'm a private pilot and flew for a while with an AutoPilot but I didn't ignore what was going on. Nor would I have blamed it on Cessna if I had crashed.

    Cell phones and texting are a much bigger problem while driving.
     
  9. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    It wasn't fatal.

    And I remind you of the report that in1.3 Million miles under AP, airbag deployments were down 50%.

    Find another manufacturer with that record.
     
  10. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    That is the problem with Tesla's arrogant approach. Tesla drivers on auto pilot do not need to pay attention. They just need to have enough contact with the car that the car is fooled into detecting "attention".

    Disengaging 10-11 seconds before an accident sounds like a good way for Tesla to shirk responsibility. The system was off! It had been off for 10-11 seconds! It isn't our fault!

    The Google studies previously reported by Tom highlight the dangers involved. In its current form,Tesla's high speed autodrive is an unsafe feature.


    The way you inserted it into the thread I thought it was. We were discussing a fatal accident in Florida. I thought you were talking about that accident when you mentioned the Penn. accident.

    I corrected my post with a better reference.
     
  11. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    Where do you conclude that 'Tesla drivers on auto pilot do not need to pay attention'? Maybe we need every car to alert the driver that if you start this car you could have an accident!! That would save more lives than have happened in Tesla accidents.

    There are uTube videos of idiots abusing anything you can imagine. So we ban everything?

    My advice to you - don't drive your car.
     
  12. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

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    But statistically, with 130 million miles and 1 fatality, the Tesla AP is 30% safer than other cars on US roads.
     
  13. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    They have given that power to their customers and then act surprised when they use it.
    Perhaps Tesla drivers are not mature enough to have auto drive?

    Some are ... and I am sure you will be the perfect driver staying alert and in control at all times. Just like you are today. But please be honest enough to let us know if you fall victim to the complacency publicly demonstrated by other users of auto drive.
     
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  14. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    All I can say is generalizations are a very bad thing. We have one driver that lost his life so that brands everyone and the manufacturer?

    I'll (and my wife) will put some miles on later this week - we'll keep you posted.
     
  15. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Unfortunately Mr Brown was not the only one to post videos of his Tesla driving. He is the only one to pay with his life (so far, that we know of) and no non-driver has been killed in a Tesla auto drive connected accident (so far, that we know of). The problem with Tesla auto drive is not limited to one or two drivers.

    As I have posted before, Tesla responded to the reports of their drivers "misbehaving". Was their response good enough? I suppose we will see as further accidents are reported.
     
  16. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Another accident (July 9th) - Driver's fault for not disengaging Auto Pilot after leaving an interstate:
    [source]

    I thought that auto pilot was disabled when not on a divided roadway?

    This accident reminds me of the Pennsylvania accident where the transition from car driving to human driving was unsuccessful.
     
  17. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    How Tesla and Elon Musk Exaggeraged Safety Claims About Autopilot and Cars
    The autonomous program isn’t meant for most types of driving, and the automaker compares its new luxury vehicles to older, cheaper cars.

    After years of hype about its autonomous driving system, the facts are coming out about how safe Tesla and Autopilot really are.

    Elon Musk’s company admits three of its vehicles have crashed while Autopilot was engaged, including one fatal accident in which Joshua Brown’s vehicle ran directly into a semi truck. In the wake of Brown’s death, Musk claimed Autopilot would save thousands of lives if it was deployed universally today. That bold claim is based on insufficient data and flawed comparisons between Tesla vehicles and all other cars that stack the deck in favor of the company.
    ...
    In the wake of Brown’s fatal crash, Tesla’s sensor supplier Mobileye clarified that its current technology is not designed to prevent a crash with laterally moving traffic like the turning semi truck Brown’s Model S struck. This week, Tesla revealed another Autopilot accident that saw a Model X swerve into wooden stakes going 55 mph in a canyon road.
    ...
    Rather than waiting for LIDAR costs to come down or building in a complex driver alertness monitoring system, Tesla has chosen to blame its faithful beta testers for any problems that pop up in testing. One Tesla owner describes this Catch-22, after being told that a crash was her fault because she turned off Autopilot by hitting the brakes: “So if you don’t brake, it’s your fault because you weren’t paying attention,” she told The Wall Street Journal. “And if you do brake, it’s your fault because you were driving.”

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/14/why-tesla-s-cars-and-autopilot-aren-t-as-safe-as-elon-musk-claims.html

    There are further details about how Tesla's claims are exaggerated in the article.
     
  18. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    The Daily Beast! I'm glad you believe everything you read on the internet.

    I'm going out to buy a couple of horses and a buggy.
     
  19. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

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    One part of the article seems to contradict other articles I've read. The Daily Beast article said:

    Yet the NY Times says this about Brown's understanding of AP:

    Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/02/business/joshua-brown-technology-enthusiast-tested-the-limits-of-his-tesla.html?_r=0
     
  20. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Exactly.

    The feature relies on human capabilities that are not natural for many to most people--staying as attentive with AP driving as they would if they were driving.

    Peace,
    Tom
     

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